Elena. Whats the alternative universe that you want to create . So tom and paul are making a case that we have a lot of interests, may not like everything that russia does, but we have to talk to them and get done what we can and tom had a list of things which if those are on your list to do, russia could play a role. Whats the alternative . Well, the alternative is that we have some sort of tougher policy towards russia. There have to be consequences for what it has done on the International Order for its invasion of sovereign country, its mass murder of civilians in syria. That tougher policy will be a mix of. Includes ramping up sanctions which we have in place. Reinvesting in our relationship with our allies. Standing up to russias human rights abuses, and of course, investigating russias best export to the west. Which is corruption. Russia needs to clean up its own act. And its not about telling them what to do, its our way or the highway, that is absolutely not what this is. But
Elena. Whats the alternative universe that you want to create . So tom and paul are making a case that we have a lot of interests, may not like everything that russia does, but we have to talk to them and get done what we can and tom had a list of things which if those are on your list to do, russia could play a role. Whats the alternative . Well, the alternative is that we have some sort of tougher policy towards russia. There have to be consequences for what it has done on the International Order for its invasion of sovereign country, its mass murder of civilians in syria. That tougher policy will be a mix of. Includes ramping up sanctions which we have in place. Reinvesting in our relationship with our allies. Standing up to russias human rights abuses, and of course, investigating russias best export to the west. Which is corruption. Russia needs to clean up its own act. And its not about telling them what to do, its our way or the highway, that is absolutely not what this is. But