terrorism. yes. well, ultimately it - terrorism. yes. well, ultimately it is - terrorism. yes. well, ultimately it is the i ultimately it is the responsibility of the company, nso group, and the responsibility of israel s government, the ministry of defence, which is regulating the export of these tools. it is their responsibility to sit nso down and say look, if you sell this to saudi arabia, if you sell this to the uae or bahrain or these other repressive governments, what do you think they are going to do with that? well, maybe they will go after some criminals and terrorists, but the main concern with these governments like saudi arabia is trying to figure out what their critics up figure out what their critics up to, trying to ensure the survival of the monarchy. he is speaking truth to power, what are they planning next and how can we subvert them? you mention can we subvert them? you mention some can we subvert them? you mention some of - can we subvert them? you mention som
presence of this industry. but we at citizen lab released a report a few weeks ago looking at another very concerning company, also based in israel, and we found evidence that there spyware was being used to targetjournalists, activists and civil society all around the world. so it is not that there are just one or a small number of bad apples in this industry. the problem is with the industry and the lack of regulation. untilthat the industry and the lack of regulation. until that changes may be nso group goes away but they will be ten other nso to take its place. they will be ten other n50 to take its place. they will be ten other n50 to take its place. thank you very much indeed take its place. thank you very much indeed for take its place. thank you very much indeed for that. - stay with us on bbc news. still to come: as anti games protests continue, more olympic athletes and officials are either infected with coronavirus or are in quarantine, just five days before the games
done, first of all? well, nso grou done, first of all? well, nso grow) sells done, first of all? well, nso group sells the done, first of all? well, nso group sells the pegasus - done, first of all? well, nso - group sells the pegasus spyware to dozens of governments all around the world, and originally it required the target to click on a link to facilitate the hacking of the phone. but nowadays the spyware system uses what is called a zero click technique, meaning that the government can hack the phone without the target having to take any action. your phone can be sitting on the table, one minute it is fine, the next minute it is compromised. the next minute it is comromised. . , compromised. bright, and this would appear compromised. bright, and this would appear to compromised. bright, and this would appear to have - compromised. bright, and this would appear to have already. would appear to have already affected a number of journalists and, as you say, activists, running
governments will do. well, i think there governments will do. well, i think there are governments will do. well, i think there are two - governments will do. well, i think there are two main - think there are two main takeaways from this report here. the first one is, you know, i think people are quite surprised by the scale of this. some of the leaked data has around 50,000 phone numbers on there, which may have been selected for targeting. so that level of scale is really, i think, beyond what many people think, beyond what many people think and envision. nso group says from time to time, oh, a very small number of targets, this is for the osama bin ladens of the world. so i think this sheer scale and just the number of countries in which this is being abused, for example india represent itself as a democracy. yet we see cases where politicians, judges, journalists and others are being spied on by the government. are being spied on by the covernment. ~ . ., , government. what, i
and politicians around the world may have been spied on using mobile phone malware that is intended to be used against criminals and terrorists, according to a massive data leak. reports suggest widespread misuse of spyware sold and developed by an israeli surveillance company. the company in question have strongly denied the allegations against them and say their technology is only sold to the law enforcement and intelligence agencies of vetted governments. we can now speak to bill marczak, who is senior research fellow at citizen lab. bill was the first person to discover an iphone hack used by the israeli cyber warfare company nso group which was used to infect targets with pegasus spyware through links in sms text messages. thank you very much indeed for joining us, bill. can you just explain how readily this can be done, first of all?