hard to see how there s any movement at this time. perhaps around october 17th they ll try to get to something where all sides look okay and boehner can bring back to the conference. where we stand right now, it s still very much we will not negotiate until the two things are met. mark, let s bring in the news of the day which was reported exclusively by andrea mitchell. i woke up with her on the today show this morning reporting about families who are not receiving death benefits after loved ones have been killed protecting this country. it is precisely as andrea accurately pointed out, we think that kind of heat cannot be withstood in washington. it s one of impacts of the shutdown. in a lot of ways that s been lost and now we re in day eight of the shutdown. a lot of the inside washington conversation has started to turn to the debt limit and debt ceiling. and deservedly so given the stakes involved. these type of stories and things that people rely on for the government aren