which by the way, sondland supposedly in his testimony said he didn t remember those any kind of conversation like that. exactly. but what the democrats want in order to make their case publicly is not just these officials to lay it out in private, but ultimately when we get to the public hearings for somebody like morrison or others to be a john dean, to be willing to come forward and say in public, yes, this happened, and i didn t think it was right. that is a moment that if they don t have, it will be easier for republicans to poke holes in it. just in terms of the process, the idea of transcripts, adam schiff has said that transcripts would be released from even the skiff area. correct. do we know a timeline on that at all? i think they want to do it fairly soon. the most important thing that has to happen is classified information review. they have to take out anything that s classified. but it s not a grand jury. that shouldn t be all that difficult. david gergen,