of the book how the catch a spy, welcome. and joyce, was this reporting of the michael cohen payments as avenatti said up to $4 million or the association with the president in that whole space there, what is standing out the you, joyce? well, the most important thing to focus on, richard, is that we don t have all of the facts that are necessary to form a judgment about whether cohen s conduct was merely swampy or whether it was krim a nal. criminal, and so we have to be aware of that and not too quick to rush to judgment, but because the decision s as are b us knowledge, we have to look at whether this is going to be an inappropriate pay to play scheme where access to the president is the result of payment or operhaps some connections to russia, and the collusion