austan goolsbee is our guest today. hi. great to see you, jenna. jenna: we ve been covering this potential financing program over the last couple days when the first reports came out last week. so i ve put the criticisms into three bullet points, and we re just going to work through each of them, and i d like to hear what you have to say about it. the first is one of philosophy. people say, listen, the government should not be involved in the housing market period. that s the reason why we re in the housing crisis now, and it s not going to help us get out. what do you say to that? well n something like this you ve got the circumstance that s very unusual in u.s. history where normally when rates go down, people can refinance. but because we ve got so many people underwater, they vice president been able to haven t been able to refinance. so it s perfectly normal. all thai trying to do all they re trying to do, as i read in this program, is to give people the opportunity to do