And there are good arguments on both sides and i strongly urge you if you are interested in learning more to buy rons book which i do think offers a balanced perspective. I also encourage you to buy ginnies books which i think do a great job of putting our way of government under the microscope and asking ourselves can we do better. They both have agreed and are willing to sign the books if you wish to purchase one which we can do right after this. Thank you for coming. You are a great audience, this was a great session and i hope you want to stay around and exercise your right of free speech by talking with our panelists feel free to do so. Thank you very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] more from the 2015 virginia festival of the book now with a Panel Discussion on government and corruption. Welcome, we will go ahead and get started. Thanks for coming up early on a saturday morning for what i think is going to be a really excellent panel. My name i
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