had thought of, you know. because it s thriving, it s young, um, you know, it s got a lot of interesting dynamics. and i remember, the first time i flew back to la, the feeling that i got getting out of the plane is, “why am i back here?” like it was a weird thing where it s this inescapable feeling of kind of the land having some kind of pull on your blood or something like that. genealogy, i don t know what it is. anthony: do you think that armenia looks to the west for anything? serj: yes, definitely. i think, you know, culturally, armenia is very european. um anthony: culturally? serj: culturally. anthony: but serj: politically, it is very much tied into russia. not just as an ex-soviet republic, but there s a lot of economic investment from russia, and russia, obviously based on the last two world wars is extremely what s the word they re very afraid of their borders, let s say, you know? anthony: yes. they are acutely sensitive to serj: acutely sensi
armenia remains a dream, a subject of stories, yet still, against all odds, a place. you, what do you own the world? how do you own disorder disorder now somewhere between the sacred silence sacred silence and sleep disorder, disorder i took a walk through this beautiful world felt the cool rain on my shoulder found something good in this beautiful world i felt the rain getting colder sha la la la la
however, is this is our defining issue. this is the unifying issue, and it s probably in many ways the only defining issue, both good and bad. anthony: for armenians, both diaspora and living here? richard: yes. it s the fact that, yes, my grandfather s a survivor, every family is touched. but it s not the personal. it s also the political. if turkey wasn t so adamant about denying the historical accuracy. this is what makes it a living issue, a present issue. anthony: going forward, do you think there will be some kind of reconciliation? richard: well, i m a little more positive. this is now the turning point, armenia looking to normalize relations with turkey. not because of the genocide, but despite the genocide. anthony: do you have any expectation of fruitful negotiations with erdogan? it seems to me that things have kind of taken a downward turn. richard: they have, but it was never supposed to be that easy, or that quick. we also need to go beyond
genocide. turkey has always adamantly denied that, saying it was simply a messy war. yerevan is the capital of armenia, a city of about one million people. mt. ararat looms over it, a cultural touchstone and a constant reminder of what was done on the other side. think of armenia and chances are you think instead of an armenian. maybe someone you know, or maybe someone on tv. these guys for instance. famous armenians. we needed an armenian. i needed an armenian to push me over the edge, help me find a window, a lens with which to look at a country which for some reason i d manage to not visit on my travels. then, this guy reached out.
meat on a stick, which is, let s face it, always good. saro: yeah, it s our trend - karabakh. armenia tried sometimes, cook it, but not the same taste, no. anthony: armenia and karabakh. saro: yeah. anthony: two different things or the same? tigran: not really. karabakh is definitely a part of the armenian civilization, the armenian culture. i wouldn t separate them. tatul: i think karabakh is a part of armenia, but not a part of the republic of armenia. it s like a continuation of armenia. we are the same. anthony: tigran is a war veteran and aspiring politician. tatul is a journalist. saro, our host, is armenian but born in azerbaijan having fled during the war. he now runs a guesthouse here in shushi. anthony: to what extent is this not just a religious