down, but on the other hand if we keep issuing bonds, sooner or hater we will have major financial turmoil and that is going to this is the lesser of the evils. if the interest rate goes up over time it will have a major effect on the economy as well. there is no free lunch. we have known that all along. neil: do you remember that guy? david stockman, ronald reagan first budget director, the guy ronnie called to the wood shed saying trickle down isn t adding up. last night, he gave the republicans and the democrat s the business saying that spending is now so out of control the only way to pay for this is raise taxes, a lot and for everybody. with me now, another former reagan economic advisor who has i think a somewhat slightly different view. art laffer. what did you make of that? he was persona non-gratta after he left and wrote a book on reagan but he he says it s out of control. he said it then, too. i remember when i saw his face on the film you were