when he talks about trying to expand roles for women in the church, michael and suzanne. and so john, he also says the presence of women in a domestic setting turns out to be so necessary for the transmission to future generations of solid and world principles and very transmission of the faith here. so michael, we re kind of debating. is this patronizing or something that s real? old-school, isn t it, john? well, look, i think it is utterly real in the sense that and i speak now as somebody who grew up catholic. i will tell you that my mom was the central figure in my own sense of what the church was all about. and is so i think francis in that sense has his finger on what ordinary people in the catholic church experience all of the time. but it s clear in the speech and by the way, i was at that meeting with the italian women center where francis made these remarks. it was utterly clear to me that