they said that we must tap their telephones, do physical surveillance on them, on their trucks, where they re going, where they offload, and follow them all over. you would pay bribes. you d use tracking devices. you would effectively hire spies. is that legal? no, not actually. did you know it wasn t legal? yeah, i knew it wasn t legal. but you did it anyway? yeah. did bat know you were doing that? they were giving us money to do that. when you paid bribes, did bat know you were paying bribes? they definitely knew it because i have to specify it in my invoice. you have to specify what you used the money for. half a world away, another man is running from his past. francois van der westhuizen also used to do bat s dirty
francois van der westhuizen also used to do bat s dirty work in south africa. he too broke the law for british american tobacco. you used corruption and bribery? correct. did bat know about that? correct, they knew. how many people were you paying, then, you personally? me personally? probably every month. ..15 people. did anyone in bat say, hang on, this is illegal, we oughtn t to be doing it ? no. it was a system on the go, it was a system in progress, and i was just part of it. bat s secret operation in southern africa ran from 2000 to 2016. we have spoken