i was listening only in this call with the finance minister of its support package being rolled out to its farming community. it s concerned about the infrastructure that is being bombed now from russia. so i would just say to your remarks around president macron, honesty s important between friends, and i think ukraine knows that europe is its friend. all right. we re running short of time. just some quickfire questions on other parts of your portfolio and the eu. energy and green issues are vitally important to the eu. you ve got this sort of commitment to decarbonisation, to a green energy transition. ijust wonder, with the current sort of panic over energy supplies, given the europeans have pledged to wean themselves off russian oil and gas, what sense does it make and this is something that you re involved in what sense does it make to suddenly decide that gas fired power plants are sustainable and to classify them as such going forward with the eu s green agenda? to environme
in the european union to really accelerate the withdrawal from our overreliance on oil and gas from russia. and we need to do that by investing elsewhere in renewables, as many other of our allies need to do as well. so i would just say to you. but you talk about urgency. you said to me, stephen, i totally understand your point about urgency. this matters every single day. as we speak. you know, commissioner, as well as i do, as we speak, the people left in towns like mariupol are suffering bombardment without food, without water, on the brink of starvation today. and you re telling me, oh, well, you know, we have to maintain unity in the european union. this isn t something we re united on right now. we ll keep discussing it. when are you going to make a decision that might help ukraine, by taking that decision to cut off oil and gas imports from russia ? when? i think you ve been very dismissive of the actions we ve taken, and i have not disagreed with your point around the
two days ago say this our western partners have not completed the sanctions on disconnecting the banking system from swift. that is the international transaction system. many banks that matter have not been disconnected, and that s particularly true in europe of those banks which handle the financial transactions which give payments to russia for oil and gas. why will you not ensure that swift transactions are blocked for all russian banks, including those banks which handle the energy transactions? well, i did say, just to correct you, that the minister of finance asked us to do more, and indeed i m aware of the words of president zelensky. i listened very carefully to it, and you will understand, because it s been a very open comment, that the issue around energy is a particular point in europe. we are over reliant on russian oil and gas. we plan to reduce significantly that dependency, and that takes time. but, of course, we ve also said that everything
energy is a particular point in europe. we are over reliant on russian oil and gas. we plan to reduce significantly that dependency, and that takes time. but, of course, we ve also said that everything remains on the table. so, we started with one package of sanctions. we have four now in place. and there is an ongoing discussion about the energy question, because i accept fully your point that we continue to do business because we rely on energy. and the key here is, what impact would it have if we were to do exactly that, withdraw from purchasing energy from russia or, as you say, de swift extra banks? we have to make sure that the sanctions impact russia and don t boomerang in a very negative way, notjust on the european economy, but it could have consequences globally. so i think we are taking the right approach, but i can fully understand and empathise with the comments of president zelensky. sorry, commissioner. crosstalk i want to be clear about what you re saying.
it s why we want it to stop sooner rather than later. and indeed, this may happen in time. my hope is that there won t be a deeper escalation of the invasion in ukraine, where we would see worse happening, because, as you ve rightly said, people have lost their lives. there are people who are not getting water and food, humanitarian aid, although we are working to try and, with humanitarian organisations, get those supplies into the country. so we are doing a lot and, of course. does it worry you. ? yeah, it s not about sort of me or my feelings. but does it worry you when ukraine s foreign minister just four days ago said this what i have seen in the last ten days in the european union and he was referring to the refusal to close ports to all russian vessels, he was referring to the lack of action on swift blocking for key russian banks, he was also, of course, referring to oil and gas imports he said, what i see is backsliding in the european union back to a normality. it