moment and, crucially, vladimir putin s arm eaves involvement in that war. because this was what they undertook there, a project, an intentional one, of force depopulate station depopulation, intentional civilian targeting. to star for surrender, to offer syrians that choice. it had enormous geopolitical ripple effects because it drives people out and they have nowhere to go. and then everyone else is brought into it. and it s happening again, right now. nbc news correspondent cal perry s and the western ukrainian city lviv where he joins me now. cal, it s always great to talk to you, i hope you re well. what s the latest today? well, i ll pick up where you ve left it off, the tactics that we are seeing in the city of mariupol is exactly what we saw in aleppo. as i look at this video from mariupol and places like kharkiv, the first thing they are doing is they are bombing the cities to rubble and then they are bombing the rubble. beyond that, you have now this