you know, there s nothing that republicans and democrats in the center so-called can agree on than getting america involved in a war overseas. and so we re kind of seeing this return to form in washington. you mentioned that new york times headline. you re also seeing it in places like the wall street journal where, you know, you open up to the opinion page and there s all sorts columns and editorials calling for humanitarian airlifts and limited no fly zones and you know, the provision of these really advanced weapons systems to ukraine. and nowhere is anyone talking or even being honest about the fact that we run very serious risk of escalation with these actions. it s like they re just hand waving these things away and we re not even having a debate about it like you can see it changing day to day in washington and well, and who s going to get the weapons that we end up funding or sending that make their way
hide it behind terms like no fly zones. we are talking about going to war. is nato ready for that? is the united states ready for that? garry is absolutely right that nato is america, and middle can act with an america, but in situations like this, america can t act with nato. and at this point, i don t necessarily buy the argument that escalation is inevitable. i agree with garry, that if putin is gonna ask, he s gonna do it for his own reasons. but i don t think, after this bungle in ukraine, that he has a strength to do that right now, without resorting to much more drastic means. i don t think that nato should be the first escalator, i think if we go to, warren should be the very last resort. for so many ukrainians on the ground, they certainly feel like it is the worst-case scenario right now. thank you all so much, garry kasparov tom nichols and eugene daniels. tomorrow, garry and i will be
about going to war with russia, but we have to stop phrasing this in some sort of clinical language about no-fly zone s. on this, i think president biden was absolutely right, we are talking about a major regional war that is already a nightmare of atrocities, turning into a major european war and potentially a global war. and if that s the argument we re gonna have the let s have that debate. but, let s not costume it or hide it behind terms like no fly zones. we are talking about going to war. is nato ready for that? is the united states ready for that? garry is absolutely right that nato is america, and middle can act with an america, but in situations like this, america can t act with nato. and at this point, i don t necessarily buy the argument that escalation is inevitable. i agree with garry, that if putin is gonna ask, he s gonna do it for his own reasons. but i don t think, after this bungle in ukraine, that he has
and, especially after a few days ago in the west of ukraine, so many people were leaving other parts of ukraine to the west. but now in the west, it s also not safe. so, the situation is pretty bad. i want to ask you, you talk about no fly zones, you and i have talked about this before. that is obviously a sticking point with the west. the other weaponry, including the airplanes that poland has discussed. but you also mentioned oil and gas purchases. america has ceased oil and gas purchases and trade with russia, but america doesn t get as much oil from russia as europe does. the countries of europe do. hungry, where i am, germany, italy. these are all countries that are highly dependent on those exports from russia. how is that discussion going? how is it that you are able to talk to these european parliament members and say, yes, your people will feel pain but the consequence of not feeling that pain or at the gas pump or
still countries who are hesitating about helping or not. and i can tell you, this is happening right now and i want you to see this because this is happening in my country. this is pure genocide. and we do need help to stop this, we need help to win this war, we need the world to stop hesitating, to stop thinking and start acting. start because this needs to stop. when you say start acting, there are people concerned that anything that feels like direct military interest prevention including no fly zones or western nato troops in ukraine will be an escalation that could result in nuclear war. what do you tell those people? we are not asking for troops. there are russians on the ground we do need weapons and we do need sanctions and on russian gas and oil. we do need weapons to fight in the air because we have children we are showing what happens to their houses and the cities. we need weapons to protect our skies. we will protect them ourselves.