that it s very clear, especially since rudy giuliani joined the team, that those around the president are becoming increasingly more extreme and those moderate voices or those voices of moderation, i will say, are fewer and far between. i don t know if they re moderate, but they adhere to some norms. don mcgahn understands the importance of an fbi director s objections, it would appear. absolutely. and so it s extremely important that those people continue to say whatever it is that they re saying that keeps the president, you know, from doing crazy things like firing bob mueller, for example. that s important. i m also curious for phil rucker if in his reporting if he s we re going to fix your mic. let me take that question back to phil rucker. phil rucker, can you weigh in on this other piece of reporting about a tinder box? that sounds imminent. give us a sense of what you re reporting out on the timing of the showdown. well, just that it s moving
far less interested right now and concerned and obsessed with what robert mueller is doing and far less focused on firing bob mueller than they are seeking legislation to outlaw the southern district of new york. i mean i say that in jest, of course but there s a real understanding inside the white house that the problem this is white house will face ultimately may not come from robert mueller but the southern district in new york and firing robert mueller does nothing to stop that investigation under way. absolutely. it s in motion and most worrying to the white house they now have all the documents and computer files and everything else from michael cohen, the president s self-described ray donovan style fixer.
fascinating. donald trump says he s innocent but then he says he won t flip. and then it s he s innocent, i m not ruling out a pardon. of course these pardons at the end of the day probably won t mean a thing because you ll have eric schneiderman and the new york attorney general s office taking whatever the southern district of new york finds and whatever bob mueller finds and prosecuting them at the state level. that raid carried out by the southern district and the fbi on michael cohen a couple weeks ago, his office, his hotel room, his home clearly rattled the president of the united states and got him to tweeting because he consumes media, as we all know, and he s hearing the whispers or the shouts, actually that michael cohen, his trusted attorney, his trusted ally, his trusted fixer could be compelled when faced with the possibility of jail time and not seeing his two children for a very long time to flip on the president. now it may not be as easy as
this legal argument which suggests that although it could be a questionable practice under bar rules, it s not an illegal practice in the state of new york. so what matters here is the substance of these tapes, and in the context of what we now know to be the unfolding criminal investigation, there could be information avenatti is aware of on those tapes that would be damaging to cohen. i want to bring in charlie sikes. a contributing eder to the weekly standard and an msnbc contributor. thanks for your time here. i am not going to ask you to play lawyer, but let s talk about the politics of this. if you are in the west wing right now, how concerned are you about this particular hearing? extremely concerned about this hearing. in fact, you know, i think that the president is clearly wanting to, you know, take dramatic action. firing rod rosenstein, firing bob mueller, but the one thing that might appreciate him from
recess, the gop uses him as a punching bag. the seriousness of this i don t think can be exaggerated. and firing rosenstein is akin to firing bob mueller, in fact. whether that transpires or not. and if the predicate is to curtail bob mueller or to fire bob mueller then frankly i think prima facie it s obstruction of justice, don. do you think republicans at least in the house and senate, do you think they will speak out against this if that indeed does happen? rosenstein or mueller, because you said it would be akin to firing mueller. i think some will. i hope more will than have thus far. really oftentimes this conversation quickly gets to the i word, impeachment. but the reality is that s not ever going to happen unless it s done jointly together because of the two-thirds voting requirement, according to the constitution and the senate. so i think before that happens, what is necessary is that both