aren t there. let s go through each article. abuse of power, quid pro quo, bribery. call it whatever your focus group wants to call it because at the end of the day you don t have the facts to make up the case. you don t have the facts because the other party on your alleged quid pro quo never felt pressure. we have a primary document, primary source of information that is the transcript of the call that shows there is no connection. we also have the other party, president zelensky who said at no time did the ukrainians feel any pressure to have an investigation. we also know any investigation of biden ever took place. we also know that aid was given to ukraine, aid they never knew at the time was being under review, and aid that came in the form of javelin missiles. not what the obama administration gave, which were
from the position of quid pro quo. so we have the alleged victim of quid pro quo, bribery, extortion, whatever we re dealing with now today, repeatedly and adamantly shouting from the rooftops that he never felt pressure. that he was not the victim of anything. so in order for this whole thing to stick, we have to believe that president zelensky is a pathological liar. or that the ukrainian president and the country are so weak that he has no choice but to parade himself out there, demoralize himself for the good of his country. either of these two assertions weakens their countries and harms our efforts to help the ukraine. and also, begs the question of how on earth did president zelensky withstand this illegal and impeachable pressure to begin with? because this fact still has not changed. the aid was released to ukraine and did not take any action from them in order for it to flow.
conversations with the president or were talking to the ukrainians and the ukrainians felt pressure or the president wanted these investigations done. also, the president himself has said it. he said it on camera, you played it a moment ago, and he said it in the phone call with president zelensky. you know, it does feel like, and eliana, the two sides are just not they re talking past each other. republicans are making a political argument. democrats are making a legal argument, and they re going, how does the other side not see what we see? that s what i m taking away from this. i actually think rr choosing to emphasize different things. republicans are trying to say what the president, the president tried to do something, but it never happened. the democrats are saying, you know, there was a quid pro quo or even if you tried, it was still very bad. ultimately, it s a political question. i think this was a gamble for democrats. and i think what the senator tried to say and mayb
that the president doesn t give a hoot about ukraine and only cares about helping his own interests and so forth, all that shows is that ukraine has no one at its back really. that s why the ukrainian president is trying so hard not to say yes, felt pressure, yes, this was inappropriate even though obviously all that was true. because if he publicly breaks with trump it would be the last straw in dissevering that bond he needs to survive as a country. how big of a role has russia played in the hearings given what you just said? well, it s been a lurking specter. those clips you were just playing are the back drop to why, you know, interference was happening at all. why do we care about ukraine? well because it s at war with russia. why is there so much disservice about individual ukrainians who didn t like trump or who were worried about paul manafort somehow being elevated to something equivalent to, you
just get over it or whatever it was he said. because that s how we roll. those are my words, not his. but that s the import. yeah, there is going to be politics and just get over it. well, if we care about the big stuff, we can t just get over it. now, my colleagues have had a lot of defenses to all of this evidence, which is piled up day after day after day and it is amazing they hear you testimony, mr. holmes, and it was clear the security assistance was being withheld, clear to all of the americans, it was clear to the ukrainians. you testified that ukrainians felt pressure, they still feel pressure to this day. my colleagues saying, the same hearing, i guess they re not listening. ukrainians felt no pressure? there is no evidence they felt pressure. which gets into their next defense, which is it is all hearsay. it is all hearsay.