we subjected three al qaeda terrorists to these techniques, before we do that, ksm was not saying a word. he was silent. after we subjected him to the eit s he started to break. the point is once we broke him, i don t care if we got the courier s name one minute after he was waterboarding or one year after he was waterboarded. the point is the e.i.d. s broke him. the factor standing by the story we broke last night. we are standing behind it we believe it s true with 100% certainty. that s it. 183 times he was waterboarded. it didn t do much time. it worked. bill: secretary rumsfeld if you want to come on we have a slot for you. promote your book and do what you want. see what he says. is that fair enough? directly ahead, former member of