aspect of january 6th. instead they want to ask him about the pressure campaign that he faced from the former president and his allies as they tried to get him to block biden s victory. they re also going to want to know about that heated phone call, he and the former president had right before the insurrection. other witnesses have discussed that there were also likely going to want to talk to him about the threats that he faced from trump supporters on the capitol that day. now this could potentially sarabi historic. this would be the first time that he would be cooperating in a criminal investigation against the former president, testifying under oath at this point, we don t know the exact date for his testimony or his appearance before the grand jury. one of the questions hanging out there is whether former president trump will try to appeal this on his own on executive privilege grounds, and so far this investigation he has lost every time he has tried to push this issue of execut
be the most consequential one because he had the one on one conversations with trump. but its mark meadows, it s all of these other top trump officials that they tried to get them from testifying, but they ve lost those battles. as we reported earlier this week, striking it didn t get a lot of attention. trump wasn t quite that day, but it it could be very significant for jack smith s investigation. it is striking, and it would be actually a little bit surprising if they appeal on that, because then potentially there going to have another loss, right and there i mean, it s clear where that is going given what you just said, with the mark mellows and others that they have lost with on the executive privilege grounds, but this is a huge development that mike pence is going to be talking to jackson smith and the prosecutors, potentially a grand jury about his conversations with trump and what, what it does. is it helps prosecutors, investigators understand trump s state of mind to and eff
out. there is whether the former president will try to appeal this on executive privilege grounds. i m told that the president former presidents legal team knows if they do that , they know they will likely lose, but they may still do it as a formality to preserve the issue for the future. for the future, perhaps, or to run out the clock a little bit. paula reed appreciate that important reporting. let s get some insights from ben ginsberg preeminent republican elections lawyer ben i want to talk to you, mostly about the new york case. the indictment charges the felony charges against the former president donald trump. let s start with this issue here. you ve advised presidents you ve advised vice president around republican politics a long time. what does it tell you? that the courts keep saying up the line from members of the trump inner circle now up to and including the vice president, united states, you must testify about conversations that then president of the united states had
argument, something of a novel claim resting on the speech or debate clause because he presided over the senate that day, he argued he should be immune from testimony. the judge decided, however, given trump s alleged illegality, pence would nevertheless have to testify, and pence has now decided to go ahead and testify and comply with that judge s order, chris now, i should mention here, we do not know whether trump will appeal this ruling so it s not as if pence is going to run into the courthouse today. trump can appeal this. he has the opportunity to do so. however, i should note, he has lost almost every case in which he has tried to appeal these rulings on executive privilege grounds. just yesterday, a d.c. court of appeals had ruled that his most senior aides, not pence, but other ones, will have to testify in this exact special counsel probe. the headline is that pence will not appeal. one of the things that i think we absolutely do know, and we ve talked about this before, l
just last monday, a federal judge in washington, d.c. had ordered pence to comply with special counsel jack smith s subpoena, and this all has to do with the issue of trump s efforts to cling to power, his efforts to subvert the 2020 election results, and in particular we understand jack smith is interested in trump s intent, his efforts and conversations with the former vice president now, trump had tried to block pence from testifying on executive privilege grounds. that did not work. the judge dismissed that pence had tried to say he shouldn t have to testify on a different legal argument it was a novel theory. the idea was that because he was presiding over the senate on january 6th, he should actually be immunized the way a member of congress would be, using the speech and debate clause that had never been tested before the judge on that piece said you may have an argument there the problem is because of trump s alleged illegality, what jack smith wants is the conversations lead