have compared writing to fighting. and as a matter of fact, i got the term i get the credit for it. the term comes from muhammad ali and i m writing sort of a biography for him for crown. which i started in 19 excuse me, 2003. so when he wrote a book called the greatest. it was ghosted by another person. he said writing is fighting. host: and you goes on to talk about african-americans and you write a black boxer s career is a perfect metaphor for the career of a black male. guest: yeah, i read john howard griffin s black lightening, which is a classic. he altered his appearance to look like a black appearance and wrote about his experience with his alteration. and he said the feature that was outstanding was the hostility and rudeness. and joshua solomon who tried the same experiments and he got such hostility that he quit after two weeks. he couldn t take it. so all those people who believed we live in a post-race paradise, how the john howard griffin altered th