expected. so i think what we ve got is a situation here where there s tension within the church, some tension with the secular law, and hopefully we can sort of have further conversation to tamp down this particular divisive issue. as john says, there is a tradition under the right circumstances to favor saving a life when both cannot live, but i think we re going to, hopefully, have a conversation that doesn t put uls in a position where the religious institutions are battling the secular ones. i hope so too. rick, i don t think this is just catholic institutions either. i mean, there are several amendments, the church amendment, the well don amendment, the hyde amendment all of which provide protections to health care workers whether they re catholic or whatever religious persuasion to follow the dictates of their conscious when it comes to questions like abortion. rick: well, it s an interesting discussion and, gentlemen, i can t thank you both enough for coming on to talk to us a