actually be ready to charge. harry, we don t want to put the cart before the horse. yesterday, you said that a potential criminal referral of trump related to january 6th would be sort of crossing the rubicon. you tweeted it in a tweet that may or may not have me looking something up in the dictionary. can you explain that and what you think the doj would be doing with something that seismic. it goes to ken s point, there are some referrals they could make that would be new and they would be the victim. for example, perjury to them that the doj doesn t know about, maybe. trump is in the category overall as that can well, they can identify, anyway. nevertheless, it would be thunderous, it would be something that would be heard around the country and the world and it would just kind of make it more plausible and soften the ground it seems to me for those charges to be brought. so even though it doesn t change doj s mind set, it nevertheless,
$1.6 million and sentencing is set for january 13th. trump himself was not charged in this case. turning now to big developments in the house and justice department s parallel investigations into january 6th and attempts to overturn the 2020 election. jack smith who is overseeing the doj s probe has issued subpoenas to local officials in these five counties in several key swing states. while in a separate house investigation, there are new questions as to who will be named in a criminal referral to the doj from the committee. zoe lofgren confirmed it will be part of the panel s final report on msnbc. we re looking at everything. our charge as a subcommittee was not just criminal referrals but consequences for individuals whose behavior fell short of requirements. we ll be done, you know, today or tomorrow, i m pretty sure.
the steps to show the doj that they re not finding any classified material to forestall a potential search warrant. the doj would need evidence of a crime in order to get a judge to approve a search warrant on any of those other properties. apparently they don t have it because they haven t conducted a search. this suggests that the doj is looking in other areas and doesn t have all the answers about where all these classified documents that donald trump took with him after his presidency, where they all reside, lindsey. i got to be quick with you. to circle back, the trump organization got that guilty verdict yesterday. trump himself wasn t charged but this will still impact him. can you explain how? for one, it s a body below against his company which is his sort of, you know, brand that he s a guy that cares a lot about brand. but collateral consequences in trying to get loans and maybe contracting with the government and then there s this very big new york ag civil investigatio
to perhaps compare notes and make sure that they have everything and create a full picture. it suggests that this investigation, this january 6th justice department criminal investigation has some ways to go because it will take awhile for them to gather records and make sense of them. so that s an important development. in terms of the criminal referrals, there would really be two types here. one more symbolic. if the january 6th committee issues a number of criminal referrals referring to potential misconduct, the justice department is already investigating that. they don t need the committee to tell them where to go. if there are new allegations, for example, of witness tampering or perjury before the committee, that could be deeply significant because as far as we know, the justice department has not been investigating along those lines. if they send the doj a new direction that s significant, if they don t, it s really more of a symbolic move by the committee. harry, you know ja
justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian has more and back with us is harry litman. both of these developments broke on the same day. help us understand what they say about the tempo of these dual investigations. the subpoenas, it was a significant moment. it s the first action at least that we ve seen publicly by the new special counsel jack smith, or at least under his direction. and what this shows is that the justice department is seeking all sorts of communications records with a with donald trump and the trump campaign and a number of people working for trump, including rudy giuliani, mitchell, other lawyers involved in trying to overturn the 2020 election in these various local election officials in contested states who were under pressure to try to change the results. and the doj already has the communications records of a lot of these trump figures. now they want the other end of the conversation, they re looking for government records,