if the united states does one thing with the north koreans, then the iranians look at that. so in both cases, he is protecting u.s. interests. in the case of iran, he s defending freedom of access in the waterway. in the case of north korea, he s deterring a war or a nuclear threat against the united states. but then he offers a diplomatic offramp. as long as the north koreans willing to engage on that, i think the president holds pressure where it is. but on the other hand, he s going to continue to put that pressure until the iranians adopt the similar option. but i think what s key here is the president cannot offer a sweetheart deal in north korea. he can t just say, okay, you can keep your nuclear weapons, don t worry about that, because the iranians will read that and know they can play him as well. mike: james carafano, fascinating discussion. thanks so much for your time. thanks for having me. arthel: let s go back to new orleans and dip into the 25th annual essence festival.