at the same time, not put any of our debt in jeopardy at the same time. cnn political analyst joins us now. mccarthy wants to use the debt ceiling as leverage. the biden administration insists it will not offer any concessions or negotiate. what do you think happens here? your guess is as good as mine, pamela, in terms of what happens next. in terms of what actually happens next, when this meeting occurs between speaker mccarthy and president biden, we can expect a lot of posturing. we know that washington, congress, particularly when it comes to fiscal matters, do not actually get the ball rolling, don t actually get the work done until the deadline. and because of the measures that treasury is taking to manage the debt limit issue, we do have several months. so, in terms of this meeting, obviously it s an important meeting for both sides to kind of lay out their red lines, what their markers are. but the president, the white house, tells us is going to lay
behalf of the american people. this isn t that. this is an action that republicans took three times under president trump. kevin mccarthy signed an increase without any conditions three times under president trump. so if they want to talk about fiscal responsibility, bring itten opt. if they want to hold the economy hostage and threaten default to force cuts social security in medicare, nope. he s not there for that. so why is it that there were three opportunities and three moments during the four years of the trump administratio when they did lift that ceiling without a required negotiation. it s the same debt limit issue. correct. it s the exact same condition. so what s the difference? the difference must be
about that. tied to that spending issue, they have married it to the debt limit issue. in other words, what they seem to be saying is spending will be a lever and a shut down will be a potential remedy. they re pretty clear about that. i imagine that is not going down well with everybody. it s not. you know, there s always been a small group of conservative republicans, even in the senate, that have been open to a government shut down. i believe even now you had congress woman luna on earlier on fox business that said she was open, willing to take on a government shut down as long as they could get spending under control. that is the goal. they feel like this is why they were elected and they re willing to go with that if that will accomplish that. neil: i m glad you quote fox business. if you don t get it, you should demand it. you get it for free because you work here.
fight. those members don t want that. and so, neither the conservatives, quite frankly. they actually don t want to increase the debt limit. they want to win that battle. so it is going to be an interesting time in the chair. interesting to say the least, michael. that is one word. one way to put it. let s expand on that debt limit issue. that is critical legislation that they will have to contend with. the new york times calls it the most perilous debt limit to beat since 2011. so, explain to us what is the danger here of something this important being subject to this kind of chaos? you are already having conversations about where this economy is headed. and, in the past when this crisis arose between the house and the senate or among the parties. interest rates were zero. interest rates now are 8% or 7%, 10%. depending on where you are in the country. so now, all the sudden, if you
of families and small business owners impacted but who are working as part of the cleanup includes immigrants. immigration policy is essential to infrastructure investment. one of your colleagues made clear in in an exclusive interview with nbc that he feels that since the senate is moving to change the rules for this debt limit issue, that should be the path forward and voting rights. is that something you d support? i couldn t agree more. if we find a way. not through with existing rules, then massaging the rule, flexibility in the rules, changing the rules for the sake of the debt celling, we can certainly and we must do it for the sake of preserves our democracy. we re near the end of the year. people are reflecting on what kind of year it s been. let s recall how it started. january 6, 2021. a deadly insurrection in our nation s capitol premised on the