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about the issues here and earlier in the show at the level of the supreme court, what else can people do politically in organizing and movements. southern poverty law center does a range of action to try to get justice. people can educate others about the judicial system and how it works and how disadvantages of not having representation, regardless of what crime you may have committed limit your ability to have your day in court. without having your day in court, it s stacked against you. it needs to be fair. the bedrock of the constitution, fairness. this fairness is not there, all constitutional guidelines don t matter. this is true. this is true. we need to get more funding into the county so people can be adequately represented. it s crucial, what this country is founded upon. danny is saying upstate new york there aren t lawyers for arraignments, whereas in new york county there s 20 of us
represented thousands of criminal indigents. norman, i want to start with you. as you said, the system is overburdened. people have way too many cases. we don t have time to dig into a person s needs. it s tough to figure out what legal steps you need to take for each individual client. it is rough. it is rough. public defenders just do the best they can. case loads are just way too high, and you re dealing with a portion of the population that has a lot of diverse problems. danny, on the fundamental question, the paul giamati question, is it harder to get public awareness, spending commitment to this where they understand why this is good, why
complaint. that reads like our complaint in the lawsuit. i heard myself before talking about the profit mode of private industry in the prisons. i would be remiss if i didn t say my law firm together with the civil liberties union has put in literally thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars, because great law firms really do see these kinds of issues. when you have leaders of the firm like paul roth, where their whole lives have been involved in these kinds of things, the private bar is a terrific ally for people who need counseling. my job is special counsel for pro bono, 100% time to help those who need it. i think, danny, what you are saying is correct. but again it s just the general public does not know how these things work on a daily basis. the fact that someone accused of a crime is going in front of a judge and being arraigned without a lawyer there. it s shocking. people don t understand what
even you should not defend yourself. the state has one. you should have a lawyer. when you put it like that, that s what people don t realize from the beginning. some goes back to law & order, where ideas come from, pop culture and movies. movies have politics undergirding them like our politics are anti-defendant. it s like much in society, it s a little bit complicated. there have been studies of people saying should everyone who is accused of a crime get a lawyer. it s off the charts, 89% of people say that and i think believe that, when as you point out at the beginning, you get into a particular kind of case and people hear that, then those numbers tend to drop. the principle is the same, shouldn t matter what kind of crime, jaywalking, terrorism, drug use, or violent offense and whether the lawyer provided is in a position to secure that right and do the job. that s what we keep an eye on on both your suits. i want to thank you, danny,
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