natasha, rudy giuliani talking a bit about this an argument made to the washington post, concern, bob mueller could take this pardon and use it as evidence of obstruction. help us understand the calculus going through his legal team s mind and to the extent that dovetails with the president s thinking. a lot of the language donald trump used about paul manafort since his trial started and since he was convicted has mirrored exactly the language he used before and after he pardoned joe arpaio, scooter libby and one more i m forgetting. sousa. praising their decency. criticizing unfairness. treated unfairly, et cetera. verify bbatim what he s said ab paul manafort. the difference, no one in the white house is pushing for a manafort pardon, no one in his ear saying this would be good, help you, really rile up your base. paul manafort doesn t have those kinds of allies in the white house pushing for like, for