that they are gunning for him from a criminal standpoint he will probably pick up the phone and that s what he will call because at a certain point there is no substitute for that. tim, does it matter? i know that perception is reality in some cases. in this case, does it really matter what the public perception is? shouldn t you be hiring the best person regardless? i really think here perception is a secondary concern. he s already in jeopardy. the investigation has moved from just possible collusion with the kremlin in the election into the oval office by jared kushner around possible financial transactions and exchanges, public policy moves in exchange for financial help for a kushner skyscraper. that s jeopardy. and all these atmospherics around, well, when will they know they re in jeopardy or how may they handle it? there is also a serious investigation of it, and i think they have to take it seriously
resources at this. you know, i defended a myriad of these cases, including independent counsel, not special counsel but independent counsel cases, and i m not so sure that washington, quote, unquote, experience translates into the best defense lawyer. my guess is if he starts to feel like he s got some kind of criminal jeopardy, that he will reach out to, and i can probably guess or name one of the two or three lawyers that he would reach out to. and at this point he probably does not feel that he has criminal jeopardy. otherwise you wouldn t go to marc kasowitz is a fine lawyer and he s got a fine firm but that s not going to be your go-to guy if you think you have got criminal jeopardy. is that a smart move for him? shouldn t he be hiring the best person whether he thinks it or not? well, this is the problem. perception is everything in washington, d.c. as you know. if he hires somebody who is known primarily for criminal
congress voiced concern it would be a chilling effect on the congressional investigations and slow them down because individuals such as the former national security advisor would refuse to provide testimony or records because they face the potential for criminal jeopardy. so the flynn case today seems to be the first example of how this may create roadblocks for the independent congressional investigations on both the house and senate side. though i would emphasize those close to flynn say that his decision not to provide these records is no confirmation or evidence of wrongdoing in this case, rick. rick: i m not sure you can answer this question but if he were to deny a subpoena from mueller, what happens then? i don t want to give you or the listeners bad information. i think we re in unprecedented territory. i know with great confidence that by refusing to provide the records to these congressional committees he is seems to be on pretty good legal ground
have to wonder about the sort of psychological effect on the fbi. i want to bring my panel in. jeremy bash is a former chief of staff for the cia and the defense department, also an msnbc national security analyst. navid jamali a former fbi double agent and author of how to catch a russian spy. on set with me steve kornacki, political correspondent for nbc and msnbc and robert traynham, a former advisor to the 2000 bush campaign. jeremy, kellyanne conway already said this morning it is totally inappropriate to question the timing of president trump taking this action. but for you, what was the most shocking, what happened, why it happened or the timing? well, what was shocking to me was that the president would move against the one federal investigation that actually could hold his inner circle in criminal jeopardy. remember, stephanie, there are three federal investigations,
p puts him in any sort of criminal jeopardy. because trying to destroy evidence or lying, don, as you know they are very serious charge are charges that are levelled against donald sterling and his wife, shelly. the more i read about it, it is a mess, a soap opera. and you re right, anybody involved in this, in the sterling camp whether it is rossa or donald himself or shelly, they should be looking at this. because if they take it into a courtroom outside the nba, right, then they would have some exposure, i would think. because if you look at all of this about making the recordings public or not knowing about the recordings or trying to pay somebody, that is bribery or what have you. the best thing for him to do is go away. yet he continues to fight. and the more the documents come out the worse it gets for him. if i were him i wouldn t want any of this coming out i would