to the end because they just get pummelled if they stick their head out. i ve got to say the number of conservative journalists and sort of writers, the number of republicans all over the place who just decided to throw in with trump is depressing. let s talk about rudy giuliani, neera. the president was on with bill o reilly a little bit earlier today, formerly of fox news. and people have been asking when the president was going to try to distance himself from rudy giuliani. he hadn t done it until suddenly today. let s listen. rudy giuliani, but he s your personal lawyer. giuliani is your personal lawyer. so you didn t direct him to go to crew crane or put the heat on him? no, i didn t direct him but he s a warrior. rudy s a lawyer. rudy went but you have to understand rudy has other people he represents. yeah, he has a big firm that doesn t work. i think he s done work in
the presidential calls and see the just released statement from crew crane then she should meet with the other never trumpers, who i don t know and mostly never even heard of, and work out a better presidential attack. with us now, josh. this makes four witnesses now that the president has hit with the label, never trumpers and this is just into cnn. vice president pence s office is declining to say anything in jennifer s defense. well they re saying she s a state department employee which is true. she s technically an important of mike pompeo and the secretary of state, but however, she s detailed to the vice president s office and was working in the vice president s office in that capacity when she listened to the phone call then testified. it s clearly a very difficult sp spot. the vice president is very careful about never frustrating the president, also making sure the president s happy with him and with the president attacking someone who works for him r, you can be clear he ll
where that weird sort of backwards theory about the 2016 election might have come from. the whole u.s. intelligence community says it was russia. more than a dozen russian intelligence officers are currently indicted by the justice department because it was russia. it was russia. so where s this weird thing coming from that trump is pursuing in this pressure campaign in ukraine, this insistence by him it wasn t russia that interfered in 2016, it was ukraine that did it? well, as of last night as i mentioned on the show last night, the incidents we know of in the wild where that strange thing might have come from was documented in this fbi report from trump s deputy campaign chair rick gates. rick gates explaining to the fbi under penalty of perjury that it wasn t russia, it was crew crane, that argument was spread in the first instance in this country by donald trump s new imprisoned campaign chairman paul manafort. and where did he get that theory he started spreading in this
the president had been told not to testify. it shows the president s intent. the president s intent wasn t about corruption in crew crane. the president s main purpose and main interest was the biden investigation. so he was not holding up the money based on corruption. the fact is we give money to iraq, one of the most corrupt countries in the we give money to afghanistan, one of the most corrupt countries. we giving money to all kinds of corrupt countries. so the idea we don t give money to countries because we re concerned about corruption is just another one of trump s lies. it s not true. it shows he didn t care about corruption. he was holding up military aid because he wanted to get something on biden, and all that was was a conspiratorial theory that s been debunked by everybody but you can call me jim, you can call me joe or whatever that guy s name was,
ambassador gordon sondland. in that statement holmes who testified behind closed doors late today. according to a transcript obtained by cnn, holmes said that during that call, quote, i heard president trump ask so he s going to do the investigation, referring to president zelensky? ambassador sondland replied that he s going to do it adding that president zelensky will do anything you ask him to. holmes testified after the call he asked sondland about the president s views on ukraine. quote, ambassador sondland stated that the president only cares about big stuff. i noted that there was the big stuff going on with crew crane like a war with russia, and ambassador sondland replied he meant big stuff that benefits the president like the biden investigation that mr. giuliani was pushing. for more i m joined by u.s. congressman denny heck, jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and the department of defense. barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney. and charlie sykes, editor at