meant they were not doing their job. they were not being allowed to look at open source material that suggested a factual, credible basis for believing a crime had been committed that s the standard for opening an investigation i think that another really important thing, any old, which you have really zeroed in on over and over again is the january 6th committee s work the department of justice has said to us, in different ways, this committee didn t influence us at all except when you interview people who were right in the thick of it they said, look, we were embarrassed and goaded into it it was just unbelievable how much that team, many of them, by the way, former federal prosecutors, it s amazing how much work they did in a short amount of time and what they revealed and that pressure was so intense on the department, and the ladder-up strategy was sort of passed to the rubbish
who are handling these cases. the money was not used for that. does the fact that the money was not actually used for paying those lawyers. is that part of the fraud? you bet. look, fraud is simple, it is a lie that you know, and the parties suggested wires you can always show that in federal jurisdiction. so he just tells a lie, and there is some suggestion that in fact, there was this didn t even exist, and smith has developed evidence that the committee didn t, that there were two different consultants hired by the campaign, that trump knew at least about one, who said this is all malarkey. so you bet, if it is a lie, and it s knowing, it s fraud, and if you use wires which you always do, it is the all-purpose federal crime of wire fraud. and harry, does the interactive nature of the evidence here, when you consider say, mike pence s testimony. it strikes me is conceivable that mike pence could say something in his grand jury testimony indicating that donald trump knew that ther
ideal figures to cooperate against higher ups, including donald trump. harry, another prosecutorial detail in wire fraud. donald trump kept asking for the money, claiming, i need this money to pay the lawyers who are handling these cases. the money was not used for that. does the fact that the money was not actually used for paying those lawyers. is that part of the fraud? you bet. look, fraud is simple, it is a lie that you know, and the parties suggested wires you can always show that in federal jurisdiction. so he just tells a lie, and there is some suggestion that in fact, there was this didn t even exist, and smith has developed evidence that the committee didn t, that there were two different consultants hired by the campaign, that trump knew at least about one, who said this is all malarkey.
logren is here we have had conversations about how far the committee was able to push into the investigation we were on with tim talking about the investigative strategy of encircling the few witnesses who wouldn t talk to you what does it mean that jack smith now had access to one of the few people who the committee didn t get to talk to? i think it s likely significant. he had many of his top advisers, the vice president did, come in and talk to us they weren t always with vice president pence. there were times we know of, for example, the morning of january 6, where then president trump and then vice president pence spoke on the phone there were people who know all of the details of that conversation clearly, it s not just that. they had many conversations.
they used to have lunch once a w week the ex-president tried to pressure mr. pence into violating the constitution i think they likely found out a lot more about those efforts today. it was a long time he was in there. if you had from 9:00 a.m. this morning to 4:30 this afternoon, where would you have started based on you were one of the four members of the select committee to make the ultimate determination about the four criminal referrals. where would you have started with your questioning in trying to ascertain trump s state of mind i think you start with what the ex-president asked pence to do and what indications he gave to pence that he knew was to overturn the election itself