before a judge is to make his oral argument, to jot down their questions or any of that and was extremely flustered. he s been very frank and forthright about that in the years since and has since be events the time it was a very mismatched case, and gideon did end up winning his case in 1963. and that really was a radical shift for the judicial system in that suddenly all across the country anyone accused of a crime who couldn t afford an attorney was entitled to one. host: do the justices seem to give much consideration to the cost for state and local governments that giving free lawyers to poor people accused of crimes? how much does that seem to wait into their calculations? guest: that was definitely part of what they anticipated as this sort of pushback from people. they themselves, this sounds like it debated it, and worried about it. but only decided that this was a constitutional right and that the states or counties or cities were going to have to find a way t