decided shift in being more open to the modern world in vatican two, and we ve had a big argument since then about whether we should continue this openness that vatican two represented. i think on the conservative side what you ve had is a all that s solid melts into air kind of reaction where the conservatives say, you know, you don t know where the church is anymore. there was a lot of wild experimentation. let s pull things in just so we can clarify what is catholic. the problem with that is that there are plenty of catholics out there who have simply left, who are drawn to god, to are drawn to gees christ, are drawn to the church s progressive social vision, but don t see it reflected. i think ex-catholics are the third largest denomination in the united states, if you counted them as a denomination. i think that that is the debate to have.