i don t put it crudely as that, but all the li, the conflict, and i do see it actually as a, as a back aggression, by the way i said just of i see the us intervention in iraq as of aggression. and i think both need to be condemned. and that s the way that alignment is meant to work both. i think they re different and may be trent pool crisis. have i think that africa, the coven crisis, was one. the crisis is that, and i think that a lot of the boom and grain that africa, i guess it is russia and ukraine of the also accept debate that, that issue. but i wouldn t put it crudely as russia in africa. actually just on the aggression point, since we are addressing a un secretary general or the subject of your book. i mean, you saying you see it as aggression. so you d see the invasion of france by the allies in 1943 as an act of aggression as well. or francois nicely attacked by nancy germany. i was a veto. it was a v. she france, that there was a government in france was m. anyway
a different story for the masses. well, thank you very much and i have to say, i m sorry, even though i m based in johannesburg, i think a lot of growth visit and the whole ukraine issue has divided opinion in south africa. generally. i think it s also important to note that among the ruling african national, congress leads many of what educated received military training in the soviet union at the time. and they bought a lot of empathy for russia generally. and the way at the time, but big lead the us and britain under reagan was supporting the regime against which the n c was fighting. so those dynamics that quite important to understand in south africa position. and i think, i don t think it s as clear as lead math, they bites because among many of the black l. e i talk to they may not necessarily support the russian aggression against ukraine box. they tend to be very critical of what they see as western hypocrisy. actions lightly us and them and they were up which was do
i don t think it s clear as a lead on my day bytes, because among many of the black l. e, i talk to they may not necessarily support the russian aggression. they gave ukraine box. they tend to be very critical of what they see as what them the actions lightly us and them and iraq, which was done without us. all right, nation. so they divide, it s not straightforward. rusher was, doesn t, it wasn t even an aggression compares it to, i don t know was tanza near going into you gander in 978 and aggression. you don t also believe that nato mainstream media is running the story. non stop russia is starving africa. i know lover of coven nato countries to allow for allies to be given to africa from russia. i know it s not perhaps being starved, a weapons leaking out, perhaps from the grain conflict into islam as groups as of from previous was, is russia solving africa? i don t put it crudely as that, but we are lee the conflict and i do see it. i actually as a, as an aggression by t
russia, through ukraine, especially since vladimir putin s foreign minister sag elaborate, groundbreaking tour of african nations, culminating, and joint military drills between the armies of russia in south africa. with me today is to present at a k at about jo, former director, the institute pan african torn conversation at the university of john as well, who served on you and missions in south africa. he s also the author of the new book, boutros boutros golly, apropos profit proselytize, a pharaoh and pope, one of the very few written works on the u. ends. first african arab 60 general, whose contributions he says had been raised by nature nation scholars professor at about your choice. we now from johannesburg in south africa. thank you so much, professor for joining us before we get to the book. i must ask when i should say a book about a un secretary general that wasn t assassinated. unlike dag hamish old famously, your view of olive. rob s visit to africa. i mean, in