white house produce any evidence of tapes with the former fbi director. but like you said, sarah sand ersz w ers said she was answering our questions about the tape but the only reasonabwithin we had quess because the president implied that there were recordings of the oval office conversation. just more color from this trump associate. in hindsight, this republican close to the president calling this whole episode one of the worst things the president has done with fallout that led to the hiring of bop mueller, the special counsel. thank you so much. let s broaden this out and have a big old conversation. i have shannon with me, a white house reporter who broke the news that there are, in fact, no tapes. david is back with us, former cia officer and author of the preside president s book of secrets. jeff kramer and richard. so, welcome, welcome to all of you. and shannon, you know, you broke the news. what s the explanation behind all of this?