was indicted on five counts of espionage. the government dropped the charges for him to plead guilty to a single misdemeanor of misusing a government computer. i continue to believe it was effective. it was lawful and it was appropriate. as the director of the nsa from 1999 to 2005 general michael hayden was drake and binney s boss. they may have a different view, god bless them, this is america, have a different view. i think it made america safe during a period of great danger. hayden says binney and drake were wrong, uninformed when they said the program was illegal. apparently congress amended the foreign intelligence surveillance act legalizing much of the surveillance going on and president obama agreed. that makes drake as worried as
billing data records of people in the united states calling people in the united states. my estimate was they were collecting on the order of 3 billion a day. 3 billion phone records. just internal to the country. in simple terms nsa is spying on americans inseidenberg of this country. that s correct. binney thought it was wrong and quit in protest. someone leaked the sore storery to the new york times which exposed it in 2005. in 2007 the nsa officially discontinued the program. the same year suspecting he was a source for the new york times leaks the fbi raided bill binney s home. my son answered the door and they he pushed him back at sun point and they came upstairs and i was in the shower and one guy came in and pointed the gun at my head and said come out. he ultimately was not charged with any crimes but a fell le whistle blower was. remember tom drake? his house was searched and he
room. the reality is that much of the surveillance state has been outsourced to companies, and it s become a profit center for them. and so, many of what were traditionally government functions only have now are now being done by contractors in some of the most sensitive positions. well, listen, this has been a fascinating debate. we ve got to leave it there. we could talk all night about it because i m still raveling through it, i think like most people watching are now, too. both sides have good arguments and we just need some transparency, which now we appear to be getting. to thomas drake, bill binney and jocelyn brannock, and to our studio audience, thank you very much, indeed. anderson cooper will be with you in a few moments. fly me to the moon let me play among the stars and let me see what spring is like on jupiter and mars
-free is good. -free is very good. [ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. back with me now are three people who are whistleblowers themselves, thomas drake, bill binney and jocelyn braddock. thomas drake, all ten charges against you, i believe, were dropped in the end, which sets an interesting precedent, what may or may not happen to edward snowden. i suppose the key question i keep coming back to is this, is if you listen to edward snowden, he keeps saying that he had virtually unlimited powers to wiretap, to read e-mails and so on. that has been categorically denied right to the top of government. what is the truth? i mean, is he just a collection of meta data, like they claim, or can the people at the sharp end, and there are 1.4 million americans currently working intelligence in some way who have that kind of access can they read e-mails, listen to phone calls, et cetera?
yes, they can. one of the elephants in the room. the reality is that much of the surveillance state has been outsourced to companies, and it s become a profit center for them. and so, many of what were traditionally government functions only have now are now being done by contractors in some of the most sensitive positions. well, listen, this has been a fascinating debate. we ve got to leave it there. we could talk all night about it because i m still raveling through it, i think like most people watching are now, too. both sides have good arguments and we just need some transparency, which now we appear to be getting. to thomas drake, bill binney and jocelyn brannock, and to our studio audience, thank you very much, indeed. anderson cooper will be with you in a few moments.