people that denied it ended up with egg on their face. no he question that milley did it. howie: he confirmed it. right. the question is, was it over the line. you know of, i was looking at the part of the book, he says secret phone calls. if secret means see considerate from us, of course they were secret from us. but the implication is secret from the people inside the pentagon and that just doesn t seem to be true. the first call he made in october to the chinese, october of 2020, was in conjunction supposedly with the defense secretary, mark esper. the second call he apparently had 15 people in the room including translators. so secret in the sense that he was off the reservation, i don t see that yet. howie: that he was going rogue. obviously he s getting a lot of criticism. it s become a beltway ritual over decades for former officials to talk to woodward and he gets to channel their