i think the reason you saw three almost shocked faces as you came out of the clip with nikki haley is we don t hear it from republicans often. it was part of why, arguably, governor haley, ambassador haley, was the most interesting person on the stage last night, because she was, in her moments, telling some truth about donald trump. saying he was the least popular politician in america. america does not want a trump/biden rematch. that s born out in the polls. she cited the numbers. she said he added $8 trillion to the debt. she scolded in that moment right there vivek ramaswamy about continuing support for ukraine and why that s important. will it matter? we don t know, guys. but for sure, she had a good night. let s bring into the conversation absolutely. msnbc contributor, our good friend mike barnicle. senior political columnist for politico, jonathan martin. editor of protect democracy, amanda carpenter. elise jordan is still with us, as well. amanda, i ll start with yo
down. when they asked him, did mike pence do the right thing? what a hard question, ron. yeah, i like the constitution. jonathan martin, your take on last night? i thought, joe, you touched on a really key point. ron desantis on that answer, but also really more broadly, his entire candidacy, he wants to avoid making a choice. he wants to be the candidate who doesn t make the choice. you saw what the choices were last night very starkly. choice one, pre-trump party, mike pence, nikki haley, who want to make a choice and say, we are pre-trump republicans. then there is the post-trump party, which is vivek being a trump apologist at every turn and effectively running for, you know, the trump second term. i think, joe, it s really
bottom line. take every president from george washington through george w. bush s first term. they didn t accumulate the debt that donald trump did in four years. 225 years of this republic. they did it in four years. i ve got to say, willie, it s fascinating that, actually, nikki haley said that last night. the fact is, i just found republicans love talking about deficits when democrats are in the white house, but they love raising em and love raising the debt limit when republicans are in the white house. they find their debt hawkishness when the democrat returns. as you ve said, we ve been saying this on the show for years and years and years.
ramaswamy certainly commanded the stage, but when he did and had his moment and made his introduction, he put forth a bunch of conspiracy theories and certainly drew the fire. not ron desantis, notably, but it was ramaswamy drawing the fire of people like mike pence, nikki haley and chris christie. i m glad you led with nikki haley. because when i was watching her last night, i was like, wow, that is what republicans should sound like. you know, we talk about sometimes, like, what would it look like on earth if donald trump wasn t there? the first hour of the debate was like all the republicans were sort of living in earth two. even fox news. isn t that sort of the problem? nikki haley, i m so thankful that she took such strong stance for ukraine, because not only republicans needed to hear that but the world needed to hear that. there are republicans who truly believe in the cause of democracy, not just in america but abroad. but the problem is, nikki haley
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