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Im stephen sackur. For more than two decades, the anc has been south africas impregnable political structure, but now cracks are appearing. At least 30 anc mps defied the party whip and supported a No Confidence Motion against party leader and National President , jacob zuma. Cue bitter recriminations. My guest today is pravin gordhan, the man President Zuma sacked as Finance Minister in controversial circumstances earlier this year. Does the anc need to be broken up to enable south africa to thrive . Pravin gordhan, in johannesburg, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Long distance as it might be. Lets consider what is happening in your country today and particularly the fallout from the motion of No Confidence against president jacob zuma, which didnt succeed, but got 177 votes, which was significant. It clearly included a substantial number of anc mps. How toxic is the atmosphere inside the anc as a result of that vote . There certainly is an active debate and d

Public spacesIt s timeBbc newsSouth africaAnc mpsNo confidence motionParty whipStephen sackurPresident zumaParty leaderPravin gordhanThe manFinance ministerIn johannesburgWhich didn tNo confidence