academic, and ex-republican tom nichols and he can correct me if i m wrong here who seems to believe liberals in the left need to stop being so woke and obsessed with race issues if they want to keep anticonservatives on board and trump out of office. thank you for coming on the show. a few weeks ago when i interviewed kimberly crenshaw on the show you tweeted about that interview suggesting it didn t clear anything up and was making an anti-trump coalition more difficult. i happen to think dr. crenshaw did a great job explaining how the whole crt panic is really a front for old fashioned antiblack racism on the right. i have to ask you tom are you saying conservatives won t join a coalition with liberals to save democracy if liberals don t stop talking about racism? well, thanks for having me, mehdi. first of all i think that is the wrong question. the question isn t whether never trump conservatives like me are going to join you. it is implied in never trump.