between sales person talk, braggadocious, we re gonna change the world, and fraud. [laughs] the former s legal, you can she d the truth, you can spin things. the latter is illegal. the bar here for a legal case seems to be in that latter coterie what. do you think today s development means the of the that? so, you ve identified chris precisely the reason why these sorts of cases are so challenging for prosecutors. because yet to cross over that line from what is arguably a legitimate business practice, maybe shady, but still within the pale. and it crosses over into an intent to commit fraud. this is all happening in the context of tish james the new york to journey generals to take disposition of the former president and ivanka and don jr.. so, she saying there was a lot of fraud, a lot of sketchy stuff going on. i need to dispose them. and some of the things that she pled and her january pleating that you filed with the court,
who made falsehoods based on reality better than almost anybody. we know that guy is already spoken to the grand jury of new york. this action by mazars today is in holding them back are failing to protect them. final thing from you, joyce, there s always a lot here that is unique in terms of this joint investigation about whether what we are watching is something civil, a civil case being made or a criminal one. and how we know which terrain ran. it s always difficult when you re running parallel civil, criminal investigations. it could be messy because the civil side folks can t look at anything that s discovered in the grand jury. this is a little bit more complicated than even when you have for instance of federal prosecutions off running parallel investigations because you ve got a county da, a new york attorney general, and they re married up a little bit. they re separate another regards. one of the focal points that i can keep returning to and looking in the civil case here
team since 2018 amid the investigation into his ties to russia. he also played a key role in trump s attempt to solicit interference in the 2020 election from ukraine. actions that led to the presidents first impeachment. giuliani was pretty frank about this. he admitted he asked ukrainians to investigate your joe biden. did you ask the ukraine to investigate joe biden? no, i didn t. i asked the ukraine to investigate the allegations that there was interference in the election of 2016 by the ukraine for the benefit of hillary clinton for which there was already you never asked anything about hunter biden, you never asked anything about joe biden? the only thing i asked about joe biden is to get to the bottom of how it was that the cycle who was appointed, would dismiss the case against so you did ask ukraine to look into joe biden? of course i did. of course you did, rudy. he was one of the most prominent members of trump s team, pushing claims of fraud s
prosecuting people who are in positions of trust who cheat on their taxes. well, this is the poster child in the case. that s a very, very good point. i m curious with the fallout here in both the firm, mazer s, and what happens next in terms of dispositions. obviously this files in pursuit of disposing drums into over the dull children. it feels like it is in the greatest reputation all day for mazars, just in terms of business. well yes, they ve been trying to the public for so long. remember that long court case that was getting mazars records to trump. one of the interesting thing at the top here is a guy named donald bender, he was the league person in mazars who is trump s accounted for years, and years. so, when we talk a lot about allen who is insight into the organization, the cfo back and forth. some of another allegedly from prosecutors to turn him outside of allen weisselberg or, who s worked for the outside vendor,
coalition in american life that is essentially pro democracy. it has a huge wide ideological spectrum from liz cheney to chomsky. in this case you had people that were republicans and conservatives who have different views on a number of things who would kind of come together on this fundamental believe that these people were extremists and not invested in good governance at this time. that s right. you ve seen dr. alison. variations this wonderful public health official. she s put a lot of time into trying to ensure the pandemic. the qanon folk and the right-wing folk out there were calling for her to be publicly hung. she was calling for mask mandates in schools and vaccine requirements when you go to a local restaurant. this really this is about civil decency. you re absolutely right. there were conservatives out there who said look, we can t have a society this course