but at this point, don, it s a negotiation, and i think the committee will do whatever they can to get that testimony out of cipollone. john, you ve been saying on this program and to anyone who will listen that you think it s critical cipollone testifies publicly like you did. are there legitimate privilege issues that would justify him testifying in a transcribed interview limited to specific topics? or should he appear in a more public manner? i think he s got to appear in a more public manner, and i don t think there s any privileges in that area they re focusing on. we ve already had courts look at the issue. there s no attorney-client privilege for crime or fraud. cipollone i think has a larger problem. he advised the president against doing these things because there were conspiracies involved, several of them. what s to say that he s ever declared he s not part of that conspiracy? if he s remaining silent he is certainly encouraging and enabling that done conspira
are there legitimate privilege issues that would justify him testifying in a transcribed interview limited to specific topics? or should he appear in a more public manner? i think he s got to appear in a more public manner, and i don t think there s any privileges in that public area they re focusing on. we ve already had courts look at the issue. there s no attorney-client privilege for crime or fraud. cipollone i think has a larger problem. he advised the president against doing these things because there were conspiracies involved, several of them. what s to say that he s ever declared he s not part of that conspiracy? if he s remaining silent he is certainly encouraging and enabling that done conspiracy, and he could get dragged in himself. i would think he d want to be up there, don, not only for the sake of democracy but for his own sake. so this is all a little bit mysterious, his behavior. i think i heard you loud and clear but just for clarification just to make
brutalized? george floyd said i can t breathe 28 times and they didn t believe him in minneapolis. eric gardener in staten island, new york, said i can t breathe 19 times, and they didn t believe him. and now you have bradley cox in new haven, connecticut, tell the police i think my neck is broken and they don t believe him. yet you talked about what happened to freddy grave, it s the first thing i taught about when i learned this story. that was in 2015 transported in the police van. and we know the outcome of that. the officers they were charged, but they were never prosecuted for anything. they didn t face any sort of disciplinary action. what do you want to see happen, ben? well, i think there certainly should be criminal accountability, but also equally important there has to be civil justice because what randy krauks, this 36-year-old young black man who was not a
believe him in minneapolis. eric gardener in staten island, new york, said i can t breathe 19 times, and they didn t believe him. and now you have bradley cox in new haven, connecticut, tell the police i think my neck is broken and they don t believe him. yet you talked about what happened to freddy grave, it s the first thing i thought about when i learned this story. that was in 2015 transported in the police van. and we know the outcome of that. the officers they were charged, but they were never prosecuted for anything. they didn t face any sort of disciplinary action. what do you want to see happen, ben? well, i think there certainly should be criminal accountability, but also equally important there has to be civil justice because what randy cox, this 36-year-old young black man who was not a convicted felon even though the media has strongly reported that, had his whole life ahead of him. he s going to have a struggle every day of his life just to do the things we all take f