Vago welcome to defense news. And navy times investigation about how unknown warnings changed the way the navy operates. But first, president obama went to the pentagon to discuss how best to fan to fight isi critics want more u. S. Troops to take a more direct role in fightingng isis, a move opposed by senior u u. S. Military leaders. The policy battle comes as the outgoing chairman of the joint chiefs of staff issued new National Military strategies markedly different than the one issued four years ago. In that document the dod sought to transition out of iraq and afghanistan into an era of rerelative stability. The new documents hes a campaign against nationstates an violent extremists. Joing us are our guguests. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. Andy, let me start with you. Talk to us a little bit abobout how markedly different this document is from the last one. The president of the United States just a couple of years ago was talking about getting off an eternal war footing. Tell us ho big of a shift this is in certain intellectual aspects. I think it is quite d dramatic. The lt one talksks about transitioning from a decade of war to preparing for challenges to come. This document lays oua very different context. It is clear abou the threats we are confronting. It highlights objectives we need to meet. But this is not about transitiononing from war to preparing for the future. This is about an era in which we are going to being gauged continuously for years to come. I agree with that. It is a great transitional document in setting up the world. Where it fails is in following up with execution. As a strategy document, what it should do is lay out ends and means pathways. If this is strategy world that the document is laying out, you would then e expect a priority effort and an military component , how the military playsnto achieving they military and strategic objectives implied by the document itself. Vago it does talk about how is a military instrument and not an instrument of all the other National Institutes of power. When you are looking for a balance, tking about being able to do highend actors and low and nonviolent extremist organizations. It talks about the importance of presence. The difference between four years ago and today is thathe military is significantly smalaller. The numbers, in the army with the ships and the aircraft, those numbers are not there to execute the strategy we are speaking about. The lack of a balance in ways and means is going to be a shortcoming on this dument. Vago lets talk about what you like about this document even if you wont defi it as a strategy. There appears to be a lot of gogood technological shifts coming , a deterrence infnformation as far as the individual having more information than a couple of years ago. Lets go down the line. I think its very strong on threats and challenges very clear on what they are. It h highlights state threats russia, china, iran, north korean a. It focususes on extremistst organizations. It is clear about challenges. It is not nearly as clear about unpacking those challenges. There are important differences between the challenges russia presents in europe versus china and east asia. Again, what we see with north korea and iran or violent extremist organizations, its not unclear at all about unpacking those. I ink as both to coda and jerry have said, dakota and jerry have said, its not really a strategy. It never really gets to the point. That point. I agree with what there is to like. Clear articulation of the bad guys out there and the nature of challenges they present. What i didnt like was far more numerous. I think there is a hyper fixation on some kind of necessity for change, this transformation, a fixation on Technological Solutions invation. Presuming that currently doing or the way the military is where its at now in its professionalization, and all the toys that uses on a daily basis, somehow isnt meeting the mark. What it lacked was any discussion of battlefield confidence, first battle confidence training and exercising, the things the military does well in what they do today, how that prepares the force, and maybe adjustments we need to that. Then, when you start throwing in comments, as important athe issues are on Sexual Harassment sexual awareness those kind of issues, which are more social and conduct i dont know how those are relevant to a strategy document in dealing with threats out side of our borders. Vago very important, but maybe should have been in a separate document. I like the fact that they did call out by name the rise in challenging nations out there not really a ranked prioritization within them, as far as russia, china iran, north korea, which one comes first, which one is the pacing threat we need to build forces and capabilities against. That is not explicitly stated. I also was uncomfortable with the idea of this viololent extremisist organization,whether they rather than calling out how it exists, actually going out and naming the particular phenomenon we are cocoming up against, becausehis is reay going to be a about idedeas. The president talks about the importance of ideas and ideology, but we are talking about extremism. I was also uncomfortable about bringing military training regarding ethics and morality into a strategy document. That has no place there. Vago if you look at the pace of change and sometimes the pace of nonchange within e military, wouldnt you argue that a toplevel document like this about the proliferation of technology around the world deserves key things like strikes we have expecteted, isnt innovation and agility a part of this . Its a key point, but this document does notdentify where the challenges are unfolding in w we are going to a them. I would go one step further. This documument has an unfortunate title. Its called stratategy, but real strategy isnt something we are likely to post on a website. It is going to be done in closed circles by the few that are responsible for implementing it. We shouldnt expect our leaders to show their hand before they play their hand. Vago how does this tie into all of the other documents out there . I would say the comn thread is that they are budget driven. You can take all of the capital s and replace them with s. The shedding of 40,000 army positions, the downsizing of all of the military. Everything is constrained by the budget reality. I think its unfortunate that the strategy comes so late. Here he is within six tons of leaving office and he comes out withth this. Six months of leaving office and he comes out with this. I realize we had to wait for other things, but they all tend to q looking upward at what the commanderinchief is saying, but the fact he issues this document. Does it handcuffed him for as he comes in . I dont think it well, but it would i ood outside, assessing the situation. I knew it could rough in there but how rough . There was no way to know for sure. Hey guys. Daddy, its pink but hey. A new house its a blank canvas. And we got a great one thanks to a really low Mortgage Rate from Navy Federal Credit union. Pink so shes a princess. You got a problem with that . Oorah oorah open to the armed forces and their families for over 80 years. Navy federal credit union. Vago we are back with our roundtable. Dakota, i want to start with you. The president went to the pentagon to discuss his strategy on isis. There are obviously crcritics who want a more muscular appach. One person said we could send 100,000 americans, solve the problem temporarily, and the minunute we leave, we go back to square one. Think the president s approach makes sense if you matchh it with other comments. If we want to do toes in the water for 20 or 30 years, thats the way to go, but its not going to achieve the objective of t destruction of isis i think you are either at zero or one on this. Either you dont do anything, pull outut entirely, lethe borders arrays themselves, everybody fights themselves, borders in race erase themselves, everybody fights among themselves, and we deal withtever power emerges. I dont think we want to do that. The other is to be strategic in shaping the region. Crush isis, which needs to be done, then stay there a while. Vago doesnt that make you an occupying power and expose you all of t challenges we faced the last time around . What is the culturere you are dealing with . If they appreciate the strongest tribe type mentality, you are not occupying, you are playing according to their rules and you have to keep u. S. Interests in mind. When the president says we need to defeat and deroy, it has the hint of being all in. I dont think there is an appetite in the amerirican public for being all in. That leaves us with a very awed objective that says destroy, but us set of instruments that is much less than that. T president said you can not to feet ideology with anything you cannot defeat ideology with anything other than ideas. We defeated germany with forces. We still have forces in germany. We still have forces in japan. The long haul campaign is how you have to go after Something Like this. S. Vago but we fought that last war in a way we might not be able to fight a current war. Historically inaccurate. There is an issue of ideology. There is a lot the can be done. Its not as if wve never had a next aryans with it. We had engaged in confronting throughout the cold war. This president has yet to organize a coherent effort to address the ideology in the long term. Vago speaking of the longhaul, there has been a long history of congress helpiping the pentagon on strategy but there are also those who look at congress and say it isyper politicized. There is not as much expertise on the parts of memberers and staffers. How is such a sategy effort going to unfold on a hill t that is hyper partisan . Like i think first you have to look at rebuilding the bipartisan consensus that emerged in the postworld war ii generation. Goldwater was a threestar general in the air force. He had brought experience as a bomber pilot. We have a rising generation of congress and and senators who have worked in iraq and afghanistan. Hopefully, we will see them come together in a consensus and bring the next 80s to bear, but congress will have to move beyond hyper pt bring that expertise to bear b congress will have to move behind hyper partisanshipip. I think we could use authorization of military force. Vago that went really well on the hill in terms of debate. We need members of the committees to be part of the larger debate. If i could comment on that, it has to be an informed congress. Yes, current tactical and operational experience in a given theater against a given opponent, where you have the global perspective and the education, that gave people and informed world view that i dt think a lot of members of Congress Today have. Attention spans are shorter. It has to be a more informed discussion. Vago is russia the leading threat to the United States . Hey have nuclear weapons. We have to weigh capabilities and intentions. Capabilities alone they represent an axis stench of threat to the unit states. I think he is an axis dental existential threat to the United States. I think he is right to call attention to it. Vago is there a devastating cut to the nations military capability to reduce the army by 40,000 . Yes, if you want to have it to Work Capability two war capability just to sustain operations in iraq and afghanistan, much less a two theater perspective, you are now down to 30, probably dropping to 32. If sequester isnt dealt with we are in the mid20s. Numbers count. Presence matters. If yourere going to maintain presence, you have to maintain Global Economic system, which i thinink china is a bigger threat to than russia. Vago gentlemen, thank you for joining us. Up next, how vago landing helicopters o on destroyers is routine but hazardous. An investigation found that since the 1980s, the navy ignored repeed w waves breang over flht decks mere feet from the water. That risk is h heightened when ships maneuver or drive faster. In september of 2013, a wave swt a helicopter off the deck of a destroyer as it maneuvered at high speed, killing two men. That accident prompmpted the navy to change procedures for aviators and shipped drivers to prevent future mishaps. Joining us now are the authors of the navy times investigation unheeded rnings. Grt work on this story. What was the breakdown that led to the 2013 mishap . It appears it was a systemic brkdown in the process that the navy uses to mitigate known hazards. Its something that aviators were repeporting for years ahead of time, more than a decade. Ultimatelely, the question is why were those warnings not ultimately heated heeded and why werent procedures put in ways that could have mitigated this . William p lawrence was driving coucting underwater replenishments about 30 not echo miles away. Nautical miles away. Underwater russian frigates operate in the area to counter piracy. William p lawrence was told to drive toward the carrier andnd switch out with another destroyer. R. Ultimately, they chose to land the mh 60 on the bacack of the lawrence that made them go top speed on a course that was not advantageous for landing a licopter because it put the seas on the quarter of the stern, and that mamade the ship very unstable. Vago megan, there w were 15 known hazard repoports on william p lawrence. How often was ts happening and why wasnt something done sooner . Its hard to say how often it happened because not every incident geta hazard report. But since we publish the story we have had half a dozen to a dozen navy members sending us emails that say yes, this happened to me a number of times. Here is a photo i took of it happening. It was certainly happening more than the hazard rerts. When this accident happened, the navy was taking into account the wind, how fast they were going in order to calculate the flight envelope for how to land a helicopter. For when to land the helicopter. The investigation found we need to do something about sea state because of the time they were rocking prehard. They have new regulations for not only landing the helicopter, but for taking into account how much the ship is rocking to mitigate that sort of thing. They have also hired a bunch of people to get the breakdown where people are sending and reports but nobody is compiling them or putting new guidelines out. They have people now to take the reports, analyze them, and more quickly get to information about what stains or is. Why didnt that happen more regularly . That seems like something you would want to take action on if you had a number of reports on it. Its ha to know. You could maybe point at the naval safetyty center, which compiles reports and ultimately promotes safer practices. Thats a possibility. Also a possibility is navy air and d Naval Aviation writ large. Aviators were telling them this was a risk and ultimately, they own the governing instructions. Vago to be able to control that. What are some other issues this tragedy has raised . This is something we got in the reporting talking to widows and other people. There is kind of a disconnect between whats going on in the flight deck and whats going on in the bridge. The people in t the flight deck know how dangerous the helicopter is. They are very good about getting it into the hangar and mitigating the hazards, bu people are concerned about wind beat, how fast they are going, what the next stop is on the trip. They often feel le the folks upstairs are not paying attention to what is dangerous about their job. Vago dave, you are a sailor. You know how dangerousus ships are. It seems as if there is a little more action on the part of the navy. Is the navy taking these accidents more seriously . The risk of operating risks of operating momore machines at sea are manifold. In this case, leadership tookk this very seriously and they took it hard. They have placed safety officers at all the tie comes now that will be reviewing hazard reports in the future. If Something Like this were to happen again, they would have channels o identification that could quicklkly identify and mitigate. Vago thank you very much. We appreciate it. Finance expert Jeanette Mack tells us how to save money even when Interest Rates are low. Everyone wants to know when Savings Rates are going to go up. Even though they havent increased, there are still ways to build your savings in any environment. You might already know about certificates good for fixed guarantee returns and higher than average Savings Rates. You might not know about certificate laddering. Its a way to build your savings by staggering the timing of maturity on your certificates. By your certificates in a range of different maturities and roll the cash from the shortt into the longest. This is a safe way to maximize return and have access to your fund. You get the highest yield while giving you cash in hand as the older runs mature. Make sure you are choosing terms consistent with your safety goals and be consistent with the terms on each run of the latter when you renew them. This way, you can access funds on a sick on a specific timetable. For a car choose 3, 6, 12 or nine months. Use a five year latter for saving for a home or college fund. You can keep the latter going for years. It sounds complex but once you start, its really easy. You willll be amazed how much you can save and how much faster. You can do it. Vago thanks very much. We will see you next week. If you have any financial vago the u. S. Armys announcement that it is cutting 40,000 from its ranks made headline but wasnt a surprise. By 201018, cuts from nearly every u. S. And overseas base will shrink the active force to about 450,000 troops. Thout moreunding, further cuts are likely. That is why the army detailed ththe effects of the latest true productions. But you cannot cut spending then complain about the impact of those cuts. Instat, cgress must hostly bate our defense future, starting with budget caps. At some point, it will get to small t to support pepeace time commitments much less wartime commissions. While presint obama went to the pentagon to discuss isi some lawmakers, decrying a lack of real strategy, want to craft their own approaches. Thats good n news only i congress is serious about broadly debating strategy and resources rather than using National Security as a backdrop for partisan politics. Thanks for watching. Visit us at defensenenews. Com. See how greeces financial troubles could hurt wider European Security and why russias planes keep crashing. I will be back next week at the same time. E. Have a great week. [caponing performed by the national caponing instute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. 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