You know youre not supposed to eat the whole puffer fish, right . [ light laughter ] President Trump today met with south korean president moon jaein where the two participated in a friendship walk which was incidentally what melania thought this was. [ laughter ] wait, whats happening . Why is my family here . [ applause ] former white house chief strategist steve bannon said this weekend that he tries to be bad cop to President Trumps good cop. Wow. Imagine what a bad cop you have to be for donald trump to be your good cop. [ light laughter ] according to a cnn poll, President Trumps Approval Rating has reached a new low of 36 . Hes so unpopular pretty soon its just going to be fox friend. [ laughter and applause ] commerce secretary wilbur ross reportedly overstated his wealth by 2 billion dollars to gain a spot on forbess magazines annual list of richest americans. Im just glad he finally gave up on sexiest man alive [ laughter ] the fashion retailer zara is in the midst of a dispute after shoppers found notes from unpaid employees asking for help hidden inside clothing. Said one woman, ive already tried that. It doesnt work. [ laughter ] [ applause ] he said it was a friendship walk. [ light laughter ] George Clooney said recently the democrats need to find a president ial candidate to compete with President Trumps outlandish personality saying we dont have anybody who lights up a room. Said bernie sanders, light up a whole room . Thats expensive and a waste of electricity. [ applause ] a woman recently launched a new app that let users know when their locally mcdonalds ice cream machine is broken. Kind of sounds like theres a story behind that one, doesnt it . No, maam, its still not working and can you please stop calling us . I dont know, why dont you develop an app . And finally, a japanese zoo is currently selling notebooks made from recycled animal manure to celebrate its 50th anniversary. And this is cool, it comes with a complimentary number 2 pencil. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a fantastic show for you tonight. [ cheers and applause ] he is the star of daddys home 2. Hes one of our favorites. John lithgow is back on the show, everybody. [ cheers and applause ] you know him from the fantastic new series, mindhunter, on netflix, Jonathan Groff is joining us [ cheers and applause ] and so happy hes back. His fascinating book, the undoing project was just released on paperback, Michael Lewis rejoins us here on late night. [ cheers and applause ] before we get to all that, the amazing thing about the Trump Administration is not just all the stories we hear, its also the number of stories we missed due to the insanity of the stories we hear. For example last week, President Trumps nominee for chief scientist at the department of agricultural, sam clovis, withdrew his nomination after reports surfaced that he had alleged ties to the ongoing russia investigation. So who is sam clovis and why is he still working for this administration . Its time for the checkin. [ applause ] seth sam clovis was Trumps National cochairman during the president ial campaign. Of course you may know him as the security guy in every syfy film who sees a spaceship and drops his flashlight. [ light laughter ] hes also been serving as the white house liaison to the department of agricultural while awaiting his hearing to be chief scientist at the usda. That hearing was scheduled for this thursday, but then last week this happened. A former trump advisor has withdrawn his name from consideration for a top position at the agricultural department. Sam clovis, who admits hes not even a scientist, took himself out of the running due to his reported relationship with george papadopoulos. Thats the former Trump CampaignForeign Policy advisor who pleaded guilty to making a false statement to the fbi about his interactions with russian officials. The government claims that clovis actually encouraged papadopoulos to go to russia to meet with russian officials. Seth so clovis withdrew his name for consideration and thats a good thing. Because while sam clovis may be many things, a former air force fighter pilot, a conservative talk show host, southern sheriff who gets outsmarted by them rascally duke boys, he is not a scientist. Clovis himself confirmed that it in a letter obtained by the washington post. Here are his answers to some questions he had submitted ahead of his now cancelled hearing. Please list all graduate level courses you have taken in Natural Science . None, clovis replied. Please list all membership and leadership roles you have held with any agricultural scientific, agricultural education or Agricultural Economic organizations . None, clovis replied. Please describe any awards designations or academic recognition you received specifically related to agricultural science . None, clovis replied. Have you ever visited the produce section of your Grocery Store . [ laughter ] of course, trump was probably impressed by that. He filled out his questionnaire in like a minute. [ light laughter ] i think i picked a real winner with this guy. Seriously based on that clovis interview with trump probably went as well as this interview. How do you do it . Whats your secret . [ light laughter ] seth grimace may actually have been more qualified than clovis. At least grimace doesnt have any alleged ties to a criminal conspiracy. Oh, no even you, grimace. But besides [ cheers and applause ] besides being unqualified, clovis also has some dangerous theories and political beliefs that should have been red flag even before the russian revelations came to light. For his example his views on the Science Behind climate change. Im extremely skeptical. I take a look at the ive looked at the science and i have enough of a science background to know when im being boofed. Seth youre not a scientist and i can tell because scientists almost never used the word boofed. [ light laughter ] Albert Einstein never said e equals m ccubed oh, wait, i boofed it. [ light laughter ] einstein, youre always boofing it. Now clovis was also very critical of the Obama Administration. In fact, one of the biggest problems he had with president obama was obamas attempt to protect members of the Lgbtq Community from being discriminated against. Listen to clovis take on that. We have 4 of the population that claim to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. We have more people who are lefthanded, we have more people who are blue eyed, we have more people that suffer other issues associated with their lives that they dont receive these kind of protections. Seth yeah. Why would anybody talk about the historically oppressed blue eyed members of society . Hasnt this man suffered enough . Justice for ryan, you guys. [ cheers and applause ] [ laughter ] and if youre wondering how clovis won trump over. Heres an example from one of his Television Appearances during the campaign. The leadership of the Republican Party needs to figure out what they want. Either they want to get behind the presumptive nominee, who will be the nominee of this party and make sure that we do everything we can to win in november, or were just asking them if they cant do that, then just shut the hell up. Thats what were asking them to do. Seth trump saw that and thought hed be perfect for the chief scientist of the usda. Sir, i dont think this chicken meets the safety standards, just package it and shut the hell up. [ light laughter ] but sir, the beak is still on shutup [ light laughter ] but clovis is one example of what seems to be a pattern in the type of people trump nominates and hires. The only qualification necessary is loyalty to trump himself. And nowhere is that perhaps more blatantly obvious than at the usda. According to reports, the trump team has brought in to the agency a long haul truck driver, a clerk at at t, a gas Company Meter reader, a country club cabana attendant, a Republican National committee intern and the owner of a Scented Candle company. [ light laughter ] that doesnt sound like the leadership of a government agency. It sounds like the cast of survivor. [ laughter ] or like youre assembling a team for a [ bleep ] bank heist. Murph, youre on candles, you, read the gas meter. [ light laughter ] how is this gonna help us rob a bank . I dont smell any candles. The Trump Administration is also making some worrisome changes to nutrition policies to the schools. But we shouldnt be surprised trump doesnt care about nutrition. Just listened to how he expressed his admiration for fastfood during the campaign trail. He gave a more passionate answer about wendys and mcdonalds than he did about any actual policy. The big macs are great. The quarter pounder with cheese but im a person that i like cleanliness, i like clean. And the one thing about the big franchises, you have to have a certain you know because of the importance, one bad hamburger can destroy at mcdonalds, one bad hamburger, you take wendys and all these other places and theyre out of business. Seth its funny because one bad hamburger would be a good nickname for every Single Person trump has ever hired. [ light laughter ] paul manafort, that guy is one bad hamburger. [ light laughter ] but heres the thing, had these russia connections with clovis and the Trump Campaign not come to light, its very possible he would still have made it to the hearing process, probably doing even more damage to the usda. And theres no reason to believe trump will change course and nominate someone who is actually qualified. It is really come to the point where we should pray for this as his replacement. Together, grimace, we could own this town. Seth this has been the check in. [ cheers and applause ] well be right back with john lithgow, everybody [ cheers and applause ] [alarm beeps] let our your inner child at the lexus december to remember sales event. Lease the 2018 nx 300 for 319 month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Broth, im making my stuffing. Run, who needs what . Tin foil, im makin yams. Im making my famous cranberry sauce so. A can of cranberry sauce . Get everyday essentials, priced right daily. Target run done. All smartphones are more or less the same, right . But this is the moto z. Hello moto. Can your phone turn into a projector . Because a 70 inch projection beats any phone screen. And they might be bragging about portrait mode. But can your phone go beyond and transform into a real 360 camera . Its time to reinvent your smartphone. Its time to move on. Moto mods on the new moto z, from motorola. Get 200 off a moto z2 force edition. Get on up, mama. Get on up. Do what you want. Do you want, let the record hop. Degree motionsense. Ultimate freshness. With every move. The more you move, the more it works. Degree, it wont let you down. [ [ all ] by simon anbees funkel ] [ all ] bees the volkswagen atlas. With easyaccess 3rd row. Lifes as big as you make it. [ cheers and applause ] seth welcome back, everybody. Please, give it up for the 8g band right over there. [ cheers and applause ] also back with us tonight in honor of veterans week and all of our active and retired Armed Service members, we have a very special drummer sitting in. He is the United States marine corps musician of the year and currently plays for marine corps band new orleans, Gunnery Sergeant nathan davilmar, everybody [ cheers and applause ] thank you for being here. Thank you. Seth and to further honor veterans week, i like to bring light to some charities that benefit veterans. Starting with homes for our troops, they build and donate especially adaptive custom homes for severely injured post 9 11 vets to enable them to rebuild their lives. Check out their ebay Auction Going on now where you can bid for great things including tickets to this show. And thank you so much for checking that out. [ applause ] our first guest tonight is an emmy, tony, and golden globe Award Winning actor you know from 3rd rock and the sun, dexter, and the crown. He stars as will ferrells father in daddys home 2 which is in theaters friday. Lets take a look. Did you touch our thermostat . Did you turn it up . Oh, of course not. Did somebody fiddle with the thermostat . Yes, its 85 degrees. 85 . 85. Do you have any idea how much even a few degrees can impact the gas bill . Of course i do. Its unthinkable. Dad, kurt, whats going on in here . Why is it so hot . Someone fiddled with the thermostat. What . Who would do that . Seth please welcome back to the show, john lithgow, everybody [ cheers and applause ] seth welcome back, john yeah, its great to be back. Seth so happy to see you. Since you were last here, you had a wonderful portrayal of Winston Churchill in the crown. Yes. Seth deservedly won an emmy for it. Yes, i did. [ cheers and applause ] seth that obviously youre approaching a character so many actors have played. And you are an american so you have to do the british accent. I heard you had a way of approaching your Winston Churchill voice that is just very unique. Well, he was a unique man in every way including the way he talked. I sort of i knew i had to develop exactly the right Winston Churchill. He had a very jowly face. Seth yes. And i remembered Marlon Brando in the godfather and i thought, well, ill stick something in my jowls. I practiced this at home before i went to england to join them. With a melon baller i created these little apple balls and stuck them in [ laughter ] and i just stared at the mirror. I have nothing to offer. You know i thought, ive got it seth wow i actually took a melon baller with me to england. Seth wow. And arrived seth and you got right through customs, they had no issue with it. [ laughter ] exactly. I was not stopped. And took an apple to rehearsal one day and i said, i just want to experiment with this. And i dug out two apple balls and put them in my jowls. [ light laughter ] seth sure. And spoke a scene with it. About 40 seconds in, my mouth it sounded great. It sound very churchilian but my mouth was full of apple juice. Seth yeah. [ laughter ] turns out that was churchilian, too. Seth yeah, exactly. Winston churchill famously spit out apple juice every 40 seconds. [ laughter ] thats what i said. Nickname. Seth so youre playing will ferrells father, perfect casting. Yes, it was so great. Seth and you are, of the two fathers in this film, you are the more emotional father. Thats right. Seth yeah. Mel gibson plays Mark Wahlbergs dad. Seth yeah, less emotional. Yeah. Hes the sort of tough love kind of severe hardass partner and im just sloppy sentimental, bursting with emotion. And will and i, as father and son, we completely adore each other. [ laughter ] seth thats fantastic. I know you shot in boston. You actually got to spend a week together as a cast at a resort. Is that nice . Oh, yeah. Seth because i know often you actually do movies and you dont get to spend that much time together. Yeah, it was good because we were all nervous. I mean, we had we knew we had to turn into a fourperson ensemble very quick. It was wonderful. We were in the berkshires for a week. We had to get as much snow as we could before the spring came. And it was just a great bonding week. Seth you had a great bonding it sounds like the entire time on the set when you did the film footloose. You actually all hung out together. And that seems like a place you filmed that in utah . We filmed it in provo, utah. Seth mmhmm. A very conservative little community. Seth very footlooseian. Very footloose footlution, i think. Seth yeah, footlution, youre right, i apologize. [ laughter ] and dianne wiest and i were the oldsters. We were about 25 years younger than we are now. But we were the old folks. And all these fabulous young kids, kevin bacon and laurie singer and Sarah Jessica parker. Somehow or other, we as a sort of compensation for that, we became the wild ones. Seth oh, you and diane yes. Seth had to be cool to show to the young people. Yeah, yeah. We all stayed in the motor court. And i was sort of the venerable older star so i was given two rooms with an adjoining door. Seth oh, wow so i threw the parties. Seth uhhuh. [ laughter ] we had, like, soul train, you know it was crazy. And these young kids thought we were nuts. Seth yeah. But you had a good time. Did you ever get in trouble with the provo authorities . Yes seth oh, wow yeah, we flung off our clothes and leaped into the Swimming Pool one night. Seth oh, thats not i dont think thats supposed to happen at the provo motor court. [ light laughter ] we got a very stern addressing down from our producer the next morning. Seth yeah. Dan melnick, so but that happened. Seth hopefully you learned your lesson, john. [ light laughter ] but it was odd because in footloose i was the guy who wouldnt let anybody dance. Seth yeah, but turns out that not youre too busy doing other stuff, skinny dipping, to dance. Yeah. [ laughter ] dancings for lameos. [ laughter ] right. Seth you are also going to play wilsons father in in Pitch Perfect 3. Thats right. Seth thats also very exciting. Yeah. [ cheers and applause ] seth so how was your how was your process . Had you done an australian accent before in a film . I had done a new zealand accent years ago. Seth okay. Never australian but i had an excellent dialect coach, rebel wilson. Seth oh, that oh, gotcha. [ laughter ] thats right. Seth so just on the fly she would help you out. Yeah, yes. It was great part and the accent suited it perfectly. He was a real scoundrel conman. Seth okay. Youll see it. Seth okay. Youre also doing a oneman show on broadway that youve done, is it safe to say, hundreds of times at this point . Ive probably done it about 90 times. Seth okay. I developed it in new york at Lincoln Center years ago. And its been my trunk show. I take it out to cities and to do one night stands, like old time vaudeville, i do it in these wonderful old opera houses in small cities and the stage hands all brag about how Harry Houdini performed here, you know . Seth uhhuh. Its been just fantastic. Seth and its a show inspired by your father, yes . Mostly. Yeah, a lot of it is about him. Its called stories by heart. And its a twoact evening. Each of the acts is anchored with a great short story that i do as a sort of oneman performance. What they have in common is theyre both contained in an old book that my dad use to read to me and my siblings when we were kids. And i used it to read to him when he was an old man and near death. Seth oh. So its about its very personal but its also about stories and storytelling. Seth and it must be wonderful to take a show like that outside of this city, to other places and connect with an audience maybe in a city you dont know with a story like that to mean so much to you . Its been fantastic. Ive been to 35 cities so far and places is had never been and probably would never have been. Like galveston and lexington and Oklahoma City and st. Louis. I always head right for the museum, right for whatever they consider the place you have to see before you leave town. This often involves barbecue. Seth yeah, i was going to say. [ laughter ] at least three of the places you mentioned its barbecue. Right. Seth yeah. Exactly. But its great. Its kind of like what bill maher does. You know, you just get out there and actually connect with audiences across the country. Seth well, thats fantastic. Im so glad youre doing that. Im so but youre going to stick around, all right . Yeah, i will. Seth well be right back with more from john lithgow, everybody. [ cheers and applause ] teamed up on the pixel 2. Its a match made in tech heaven. Its like verizon is the oil and google is the balsamic. No, actually they separate into a suspension. 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Yeah, Liberty Mutual 24hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. My dad says our insurance doesnt have that. Dont worry i know what a lug wrench is, dad. Is this a lug wrench . Maybe . You can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. [ cheers and applause ] seth welcome back, everybody. Were here with john lithgow. And john, did you hear that the new iphone x is selling for 1,000 . Its ridiculous. Seth its astonishing. Its preposterous. Seth and you know, things like this really get you to thinking. Were getting a little older, and sometimes i look around and i [ cheers and applause ] well, i dont even recognize the world im living in anymore. Things are changing everyday, and not always for the better. [ light laughter ] its times like these i like to sit down and think about how things were just a bit more simple back in my day. [ cheers and applause ] seth back in my day, we didnt have no fancy iphone x costing us 1,000. Horse feathers back in my day, if you want to shell out a 1,000 for a phone you had to buy an iphone 6, get a little bit of water on it and have to buy it again. [ laughter ] back in my day, taco bell wasnt serving crazy items like the naked egg taco, no, sir [ light laughter ] back in my day, if you wanted to enjoy a naked egg taco in a taco bell, theyd say, put your pants back on, mr. Lithgow. [ laughter and applause ] seth back in my day, we didnt watch pornography on Virtual Reality headsets. Oh, no. Seth back then we just held the phone real close to our face. [ laughter ] made sure the sound was low because we were in the bathroom at work. [ laughter and applause ] you know, back in my day, we didnt have ben affleck as batman. Seth no, sir. We had George Clooney as batman. [ light laughter ] and for some reason his suit had nipples. [ laughter ] and much like an actual mans nipples, they were made more for decoration than anything else. [ light laughter ] but clear as day, i remember they were hard. [ laughter and applause ] mine, not his. [ laughter ] i just really, really like batman. Seth really like batman. I really like batman. Seth back in my day, messaging apps like whatsapp didnt let you unsend messages youd already sent. Oh, no. Seth back then, if you wanted to delete a text youd already sent someone you had to do it the oldfashioned way, by going to your exgirlfriends place of work swatting the phone out of her hands, and then smashing it with a hammer because you thought you saw a bee on it. A bee on it. [ dog barking ] seth oh, youre right, rusty. She is better off without me. [ light laughter ] [ dog growling ] you know, back in my day, we didnt have alternative Energy Sources like wind farms. Oh, no. Back in my day, if you wanted to harness the power of wind youd have to head back to taco bell for a second naked egg taco. [ laughter and applause ] seth back in my day, we didnt have no Stranger Things on netflix. Wed have strange things all right, things like planking. [ light laughter ] like how Ryan Seacrest never ages. Seth oh, and things like aol instant messenger. What was your screen name, seth . Seth sethdog2000. [ light laughter ] what was yours . Captainsparklepuss. Seth oh, thats a good one. [ light laughter ] yeah, sparklepuss. Seth very good one. Back in my day, there was no Dominos Pizza tracker app. No, sir. If you wanted to know where your dominos was you had to drive to the store and say, i beg of you for all that is holy where on gods earth is my pizza . [ light laughter ] inevitably theyd Say Something like, mr. Lithgow, it just arrived at your house. [ light laughter ] and also, please put your pants back on. 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One for your true love. For the one woman in your life whos both. Ever us. Available at kay, jared and zales. [ cheers and applause ] seth welcome back, everybody and just a quick reminder, before we move on, check out our late night podcast. Today is the one Year Anniversary of the podcast. And they are a great way to catch up on the closer looks and guest interviews. The podcast also has things that are not on the show, like extended guest interviews and my favorite late night chats, which is our staff speaking very candidly about their lives and what its like to work here. Its the best. You can listen for free on apple podcasts or anywhere else you download podcasts from. Our next guest is a tony nominated and grammy Award Winning actor for his work as king george on the broadway sensation hamilton. He is currently yeah, give it up for hamilton. [ cheers and applause ] hes currently starring in mindhunter, which is now streaming on netflix. Lets take a look. Talking about what . Well, i dont know. Your behavior, i guess. If you want to, that is, i mean, we dont have to talk about anything at all, if you dont want to. Why are you so tense . Hmm . Youre tense right now. No, im not tense. Seth its just like hamilton. [ light laughter ] please welcome to the show, Jonathan Groff, everybody [ cheers and applause ] seth im so happy youre here. Im so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Seth congratulations on the show. Thank you. Seth you shot the show for eight months in pittsburgh . 10 months. Seth 10 months in pittsburgh. In pittsburgh, yeah. Seth my father is from pittsburgh. I have a great connection to the city. Did you enjoy your time there . I loved pittsburgh. Is anybody from pittsburgh . Seth wow. [ laughter ] that is a real reminder. They say when youre a lawyer in court, never ask a question you dont know the answer to. And that was a perfect example of why. Anyone . [ laughter ] im from lancaster, pa, anyone . [ cheers ] seth there we go. Please, interesting. We have some amish sprinkled into the crowd. Seth i think it was actually that was like nine people that felt so bad about the pittsburgh thing. [ laughter ] so, being in pittsburgh kind of felt like home because im from pa. And its the Perfect Place to work because its so quiet, i lived right by the allegheny river. And at the same time, in the last decade, i dont know if youve been recently. Seth yeah, i have. The restaurants in pittsburgh are incredible. Theres great bars in pittsburgh. Also, what i love, too, is that unlike new york, you dont have to like dress up to go out. Seth yeah. You can wear like sweatpants and a tshirt and go dancing and its like cool. Seth thats great. [ light laughter ] yeah. Seth thats a very it even says that on a billboard as you drive in. It says, keep your sweatpants on, were not fancy. [ light laughter ] exactly. Exactly. I love the unpretentiousness of pittsburgh. Seth its a very unpretentious place. So this you play an fbi agent, the first one who started, basically not investigating serial killers but trying to get into their heads. Yeah, criminal profiling. Seth and were you drawn to this genre . Do you like scary movies . I went through a scary movie phase from like seventh to ninth grade, when i was obsessed with the movie scream. Seth sure. And i had a voice changer, that was like, surprise sidney. You know, i did the whole like i dressed up for halloween and then it sort of stopped after ninth grade. Had no interest in serial killers whatsoever. Seth thats good. Yeah. Seth whats wrong with jonathan . He never talks about serial killers anymore . [ light laughter ] exactly. Now that hes gone through puberty, its like hes not obsessed with murdering. [ light laughter ] but a lot of people are. Its like a cultural seth yes, it it. People are really into serial killers. It was just never it was never my thing. So this job was a real education for me. Seth and then, did you how did you deal with such sort of, you know, scary creepy material that you were terrified in your regular life . I did, because i would go running by the river every morning in pittsburgh before work, and i did turn on the location settings on my phone, just cause as im running thinking like, wow, someone could jump out of a van and get me, so im gonna turn on the location setting for my family and i called my brother as well. And was like, you have flood lights, right . And an alarm system . And just in case so there was sort of like, intellectual things that i thought. Seth i like that you werent your goal wasnt not to get killed by a serial killer. You just wanted your body to be found. [ laughter ] all your steps were about recovering my body. Exactly. Exactly. Seth i dont want to put my family out having them looking forever. [ light laughter ] just find out. Im gonna solve that mystery for them. Just turn on those location settings. Exactly. Seth something that i think speaks very highly to your range as an actor. You were also, for those who dont know, the voice of kristoff in frozen. Yes, yes. Seth that is you. [ cheers and applause ] yup. Seth and i imagine when you play when you have an iconic voice like that, from something so beloved, do people ask you to record like voice messages for them as kristoff . Yes, yes. So sometimes like parents, friends of family and whatever will come up to me on the street or when im home visiting. And theyll be like you know, olive, this is jonathan, hes kristoff from frozen, and olive is like, no, hes not. [ light laughter ] hes not blonde, hes not a cartoon. And so, voice memos are like the way in. And actually kristen and idena and josh and i are on this text chain where we for, like, kids in need or for, you know, kristens kid School Fundraiser or whatever. Make voice memos as our characters for x person. You can just like, fill in the name. Seth oh, thats wonderful. Yeah. Seth what a nice thing to give back to kids who care so much about that. Yeah, exactly. Thats really [ cheers and applause ] [ light laughter ] seth where were you for pittsburgh . [ light laughter ] so you also play king george i did. Seth in hamilton, i have heard is there truth to this . That one of your inspirations to how to play that part was Barbara Streisand . Correct. [ cheers and applause ] seth that is not a natural i wouldnt have thought that. Yeah, me either, actually. Yeah. I replaced an actor, Brian Darcy James off broadway in hamilton. Seth fantastic actor. Amazing actor. And hes a totally different type from me. So i had no idea how i was gonna create make the role my own, and i was watching this clip of Barbara Streisand on youtube. Im a bit of an obsessive fan. And theres this black and white clip of her, one shot, singing the song when the sun comes out. Its on youtube, you gotta to youtube it. Its really good. And it was like theres no cutaways. She walks out and sings this song, and its like she was [ bleep ] herself with her own voice. [ laughter ] and i thought thats how im gonna play the king. [ laughter ] im just gonna try to [ bleep ] myself with my own voice. [ laughter and applause ] seth oh, that is great. And i hope now [ applause ] and im just happy to hear that, because i think now, you know, when parents bring their kids to the show, theyll be like let me tell you whats happening here. [ laughter ] exactly. And theyre playing the album and theyre like this is Jonathan Groff the sound of Jonathan Groff [ bleep ] himself with his own voice. [ light laughter ] seth okay, how can i explain this . Sometimes a man and his voice are very much in love. [ laughter ] exactly. Seth thank you so much for being here. Such a pleasure. Thank you for having me seth Jonathan Groff, everybody. [ cheers and applause ] first season of mindhunter is streaming in its entirety on netflix. And the short olafs frozen adventure will be in theaters november 22nd. Well be right back with Michael Lewis. [ cheers and applause ] making a thanksgiving target run, who needs what . Broth, im making my stuffing. Tin foil, im makin yams. Im making my famous cranberry sauce so. A can of cranberry sauce . Get everyday essentials, priced right daily. Target run done. The volkswagen atlas. With available pedestrian monitoring. Lifes as big as you make it. Fortyeight hours of protection. I dont have to reapply this, not once. Its really soft and almost velvety as you put it on. Thats like really soft. Try dove advanced care for softer, smoother underarms. Dad molly, can you please take out the trash . sigh dad molly trash whoo mom hey, molly . Its time to go bell ringing class, lets turn to page 136, recessive traits skip generations. Who would like to read . molly i reprogrammed the robots to do the inspection. Its running much faster now. See . Its amazing, molly. Thank you. work. Thank youschool. I think its time we mixed things up. Oh yeah, in your face and in conclusion, cats. Four flavors, four shapes. Cheetos xtra cheesy mixups. [alarm beeps] let our your inner child at the lexus december to remember sales event. Lease the 2017 rx 350 for 399 month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Broth, im making my stuffing. Run, who needs what . Tin foil, im makin yams. Im making my famous cranberry sauce so. A can of cranberry sauce . Get everyday essentials, priced right daily. Target run done. Every day, Technology Becomes much more personalized. Like this. And this. ai device welcome home, gary, how was your day. And like this. Introducing specifi, our digital investing platform thats built around you. Just answer a few questions, and specifi will provide a tailored investment portfolio. It continually manages it, so if the market changes, it adjusts accordingly. Ask us how specifi can help you reach your potential. [ cheers and applause ] seth our next guest is a journalist and best selling author of books like liars poker, moneyball, and the big short. His latest, the undoing project is available now in paperback. Please welcome beack to the show Michael Lewis, everyone [ cheers and applause ] seth so happy to have you here. Its a pleasure to be back. Seth so this is a very interesting book especially in the time were living in. But you wrote this book about two israeli psychologists who basically changed the way we think about Decision Making and the human mind. Danny kahneman and amos tversky. Kahneman won the nobel prize in economics in 2002 even though he knew no economics. Because because what they had to say about the way the mind worked infected economics and created a whole field called behavioral economics. But they they were two guys who kind of basically fell in love with each others minds and with each other without the sex. Seth uhhuh. And and seth that doesnt complicate it then. Then you can actually get work done. [ laughter ] well, thats exactly right. And the children were ideas. Seth yeah. And the and so the they they set out to figure out, like, what the minds doing when it doesnt know, when its moving through the world and its uncertain its making judgment. So for this so my book moneyball is where this all starts. Seth right. Right . So moneyball is about this Baseball Team that figures out that experts in judging Baseball Players dont know the value of Baseball Players. That if you come in with statistical analyses you can find these mistakes they make. They undervalue players who dont look right. They overvalue players who are good looking. They overvalue things that are really vivid and so on and so forth. And what i didnt get to in that book that i get to in this book is what these guys basically explain why all that happened. Like, what was going on in the mind of the experts when they screwed it up. So that was the thrust of all their work is like the systematic mistakes human beings make when they trust in their gut. Seth and one of the things is they believe the human mind is thirsting for certainty even though we live in an uncertain world. Absolutely. So what theyd say is, like, after something happens, you tell a story that makes it sound as if it were inevitable. Seth mmhmm. That the world that the mind wants to make the world seem a much more deterministic place than it is. Amos tversky had this lovely line. He said, it was just scribbled, it was one of his notes in his file cabinets. It said, reality is not a point, its a cloud of possibilities. People want to make it a point. So after donald trump wins seth yeah. Nobody sees it coming, then everybody pretends they saw it coming. And then before long theres a whole story how it was inevitable. Seth mmhmm. You know, he loses by 3 million votes and yet still it was inevitable kind of thing. Its a crazy thing. And so the very people who couldnt have predicted it start to tell a story about why it was so predictable. And these guys point is very human. Their point is that, like, were being too hard on ourselves. Like, much of life is this way, its random, theres a lot of randomness. We dont know. We actually cant predict whats going to happen. So dont get all worked up about the fact you didnt see it coming. Seth its a a bit of a coincidence that you are here tonight because we were working on that piece about sam clovis for a while but actually some of the quotes you didnt just rip me off . Seth we did rip you off, but it was by accident. Yes. Seth it was on purpose, we just didnt think youd be here, but you did a lot of reporting on the usda. You wrote a long article in vanity fair about it. Which is not an obvious subject. Seth no. The department of agricultural. Seth its not. So heres the thing, the Obama Administration essentially created the best course ever created in how the federal government worked. They prepared by law theyre required to prepare for the transition. And they like, 1,000 people to spend the better part of a year briefing books and briefings that the day after the election in the department of agricultural or the Treasury Department or the department of energy. 20 or 30 people for the new administration would come in and learn how the place worked. Nobody showed. Like, the student didnt show for the class. So what ive been doing is going and getting the briefings. So i went into the department of agricultural, just to see. I didnt know what it did. And to see just how terrifying it is that they dont know anything about the thing theyre running. They didnt bother. And as you say, they start appointing people who, like sam clovis and like that list of people you described. I mean you got to see the resumes, its even better. You know, like, you know, the skills, like, where it says skills on your resume, one of them listed as their only skill a pleasant demeanor. [ laughter ] so this is who it is this sense that, like, it doesnt matter who gets put in the job. That guy, sam clovis, that job that he was put in to do, youre supposed to be distributing 3 billion a year in Research Money to scientists, agricultural scientists, who are basically doing things related to climate change, like, how were going to grow food in a different climate 50 years from now. Very long dated research that the private sector wouldnt do. The woman he replaced, a woman named kathy, he had spent a better part of 50 years learning and preparing for that job. She was like a distinguished scientist. If youre going to take this guy who, like, is a right wing talk show radio host who doesnt know anything about science and stick him into your administration because he helped you win iowa or whatever, why put him in there . I mean, like, put him some place where you dont need to know anything. Seth yeah. Theres plenty of places in government thats true. Seth yeah, i believe it. And so why do that . Its a great mystery. Seth you said there was a drinking game the usda employees played . Yes, it was called does the usda do it . Because its such a complicated, sprawling place that even the people who work there dont actually know all the things it does. And if you dont if you guess wrong you chug. [ light laughter ] but, i mean, if i told you some of the things it does, i mean like, that believe it or not, there are people who are around airports in america shooting fireworks at geese to make sure they dont live near the airports so they dont fly into airplanes. I mean, they the usda polices actually all disputes between animals and people in the country. Now you think there are not many, but, you know, puppy mills and circus elephants that get abused. And they we kill 9 billion birds a year to eat in this country and they have to inspect every single one of them. Theres a it runs a forest service. It runs theres all of Rural America is dependent on that place. It subsidizes water, electricity, schools, firehouses. At every point in the place, its like a big part of the social safety net, there are people there working who are there not because they cant think of anything better to do with their lives, they wanted to work on say hunger in america or poverty in Rural America. I mean, there like and the point of my piece about this place was, like, it really matters why youre doing the job. And if the answer is money or, like, status, and it has nothing to do with the actual job, youre going to get a really different kind of performance out of that person. Seth yeah, well, im so glad [ applause ] its one of the things were missing with Everything Else going on. Im so glad you wrote that article. And its always so great to have you here. Thank you. Seth give it up to Michael Lewis, everybody [ cheers and applause ] the undoing project is available now in paperback. Well be right back. [ cheers and applause ] [ cheers and applause ] seth my thanks to john lithgow, Jonathan Groff, Michael Lewis, everybody. Gunnery Sergeant Nathan davilmar. [ cheers and applause ] 8g band. Stay tuned for carson daly. Well see you tomorrow. Carson welcome to last call im carson daly this is hyde on sunset here in west hollywood. We have got a great one for you coming up alias grace star sarah gadon is going to be in our spott