Is happening in pennsylvania as a result of redistricting or the redrawing of voting districts. Fair districts pa says heres what can go wrong with redistricting. Legislators work with no oversight or standards for fairness. They can accept money from outside interests that target pennsylvania because of lax Campaign Finance laws. They redraw boundaries to keep their seats in office secure, resulting in voting districts that benefit the party, not the people. Groups like Fair Districts pa point to pennsylvanias 7th Congressional District. It includes parts of Montgomery County, chester county, and all the way into lancaster county. Heres how the district has changed over the past 60 years. It now has the nickname goofy kicking donald. Can you see it . Earlier this summer, the league of women voters sued to have pennsylvanias Congressional District map thrown out. The suit claims that the republicancontrolled state legislature redrew the boundaries to benefit the gop. Republicans called the lawsuit baseless, saying the lines were drawn with democratic support and with more public hearings than ever before. The president of the league of women voters has even admitted both parties are guilty of drawing political maps to entrench themselves in power. Joining me now to discuss redistricting are David Thornburgh, the president and ceo of the committee of seventy, a group that works to keep pennsylvanians informed about their government. Also joining the conversation is val digiorgio, the chairman of the pennsylvania gop. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. Val digiorgio thank you. David thornburgh thank you. Rosemary so, val, well start with you. We just talked about the republican response that this is baseless, that this is something thats had bipartisan support. Val let me just say the Republican Party of pennsylvania has not taken an official position on this. But we will say that, you know, if were talking about the lawsuit thats going, theres one before the Supreme Court now thatll decide by hopefully june 30 next year, well have an answer. Till then, i think traditionally, the Supreme Court has taken the position that, you know, its a political decision. Its something thats been around since the beginning of the republic. Politicians are in the best situation to decide where lines should be drawn. There is an element of incumbency protection any time you draw all these lines. But look, to say that you have some expert who says the registration is x, and that means you should have proportionate numbers of congressmen across the country, you can get any statistician to come in and say anything. In pennsylvania, were 13 to 8, 13 to 5, republican to democrat. We think its cause we have a better message, run better candidates. Pennsylvania, the president , the republican president carries the state, pat toomey carried the state, notwithstanding 800,000 registration deficit. If weyou know, if the argument is we shouldnt be winning congressional seats by as much as we are, but were winning statewide as well. Rosemary well, i think thats the point that democrats might raise, is that youre not winning by that much more than 50 of the vote. David, i saw you nodding your head during some things that val was saying, in part about that redistricting is something thats been happening for decades. David yeah, and ill just say at the outset, you know, were a nonpartisan organization, we dont see this in partisan terms. I could quote you Ronald Reagan and barack obama on the evils of gerrymandering, so theres a longstanding concern that this isnt working. Whats happened in the last few cycles is the technologys gotten a lot better. The use of data and the use of Sophisticated Software by operatives have given us these grotesque districts that we now have. Your viewers saw the 7th district, and there are all kinds of problems with that. I think whats of greatest concern to us is it leaves the state ungovernable. We have driven ourselves politically to both extremes. We cant seem to get a budget, we cant seem to get basic things done, and we think gerrymandering bears a great deal of responsibility for that dysfunction. Rosemary how do we fix it . Val, ill let you start with that one. Val well, again, im not convinced it has to be fixed. Look, you start off with the city of philadelphia, and pittsburgh, and scranton, which is basically where the democrats are in this state, and they want to have their own congressman. Now, if you want to say to the city of philadelphia, were going to split you up into six or seven Congressional Districts, none of which will probably have a majorityminority, which is important to all of us that we have a majorityminority congressmen, africanamerican, latino, and you start cutting philadelphia up like a pie, you could go out into the suburbs, is the city of philadelphia and the city of pittsburgh, are they happy with that . So, look, politicians, believe it or not, are elected to make these decisions. Sometimes, you get a grotesquelooking district. I dont know if thats necessarily a bad thing, but whos in a better position to say where lower merion should be put in the same Congressional District with north philadelphia or northeast philadelphia . Is it some person you pick randomly out of the phone book, which is what senate bill 22 basically does, and has no experience in drawing lines like this, and have them do it . Or a republican or ayou know, five republicans, five democrats do it . Or is it better to have a system the way we have now . These are the questions were going to have to answer, but they not easily answered questions. Rosemary another big question, and david, ill give this to you, what does this mean for voters . Do their votes really count . Are they getting a fair chance when they get to the polls . David well, the short answer to that is no, its not fair. And i think theres a lot of evidence that says that the way districts are drawn is one part of the equation that actually keeps people home on election day. And we believe thats fundamentally bad. Look, our group has always put a lot of faith in people. And in our view, people, regular folks, not just the operatives of the political parties, should be much more involved in this process. If youre a reasonably wellinformed voter and you know who your member of congress is, you should also be able to say, heres what the district looks like. The 7th district looked used to look like pretty much Delaware County and a little bit of philadelphia. I wouldi would defy anyone to describe, you know, in 30 words or less what that district looks like now. Rosemary well, earlier we described it as its sort of become known, goofy kicking mickey mouse because of its irregular shape. David we shouldnt have to refer to cartoon characters to describe our Congressional District. Val but we have two responses to that. We shouldnt be making wholesale changes to policy that weve been doing for 220 years in this country because of a couple of goofylooking districts. Second, theres a narrative being portrayed out there by the left, and this is mostly coming from the left, not davids david im to his right. Val yeah, this is mostly coming from the left. They make the argument that, were not winning because these districts are drawn unfairly. But you know, you look at whats happening, we havethe majority of governors acrosslike 3634 governors out of 50 are republican across the country. We control 26 legislators and governorships, and a vast majority of the state legislature. Thats not because of redistricting in a lot of cases. You can look at maryland, which is majority democrat, majority are democrat congressmen. And the same lawsuits happened there. Why didnt the league of women voters intervene in maryland, while they did in pennsylvania . Is there an agenda for them, you know, beingif you ask me, theyre a good organization, but they lean more left. So, this is a narrative that the left is trying to portray as to why they dont win. We think its cause their ideas are too far to the extreme. Rosemary there are some concerns among voters. Say, you know, you bring up north philadelphia, lower merion, you bring up lancaster county, Montgomery County as part of the 7th district, that lets say you live in lower merion, your wants, needs are different than, say, people in the Lehigh Valley or in lancaster county. And how can your elected official fulfill the needs of everybody . David yeah. Theres thistheres this term, one of the terms thats used in redistricting, is communities of interest. And that seemsthat to me is a very powerful concept. You should have something powerful in common with the people who, you know, share your interests, and who ultimately are represented by a single individual. And its really hard to find that in the snakelike, political laser surgery thats taken over the drawing of districts. Val again, in that one district. But again, what iswhat is north philadelphia going to say when we cut the city of philadelphia up into a pie, and theyre in a district, you know, theyre with northern Montgomery County . So, you know, you have one relating one district, one goofylooking district to reset the policy, i dont know if thats appropriate. David well, i beg to differ a little bit on that cause weve been looking at the maps of pennsylvania, and i could give you five or Six Districts that i think are a travesty and that are ungovernable. I mean, this to me is notits not a question of who wins, who loses. But we have a sense of dysfunction in this government right now that i think, as i said earlier, gerrymandering bears some responsibility for. And for that reason alone, i think we ought to take efforts to reform the process seriously. Rosemary is it fair to say that there is some incentive among all politicians to do this to keep their incumbency secure . I mean, we talked about it in the beginning of this discussion. David yeah, and to come to vals defense, this has been an art thats been practiced by the ds when the ds win, and the rs when the rs win. Its gotten more extreme. Weve gone into extreme gerrymandering, like as a sport, the last round or two. But in our view, its not a partisan thing, we justwe have to fix it. Rosemary well see how it all plays out and be watching it very closely, especially that lawsuit that is pending. Val digiorgio with the state gop party, appreciate you being here. And David Thornburgh with the committee of seventy, thank you. Coming up next on nbc10 issue, boon or a bust . How does it impact you if amazon brings its Second Headquarters to our area . Learn how life could change big time when we come right back. At ikea, we believe that your dream bedroom, from a bedframe with storage, to the softest linens, to a cozy mattress, can be yours for less. And we believe. That cozy should never be costly. After 8 years of chris christie, is kim guadagno the change new jersey really needs . Guadagno is christies handpicked successor. Says shes proud to be part of the christie administration. Guadagno was Chris Christies right hand as our schools came under attack, Critical Services were underfunded, and our Credit Rating was downgraded. 11 times. From the bridge to the beach, weve seen it all, and weve had enough. Kim guadagno isnt the change we need. At ikea, we believe that your dream bedroom, from a bedframe with storage, to the softest linens, to a cozy mattress, can be yours for less. And we believe. That cozy should never be costly. And we believe. A Second Headquarters for amazon. Cities, towns across the country, including many in our area, are vying for the opportunity, promising big tax breaks and much more to the online giant. Amazon closed the bidding process on thursday. The Company Plans to invest more than 5 billion in the winning location and hire 50,000 people. More than 100 cities and counties across the country want a piece of that action. Philadelphia even produced a series of promotional videos to make the pitch to amazon. Jess edelstein i love philadelphia. It almost feels like the bestkept secret, and i feel like im ready to tell it now. Osagie imasogie it is the biggest small city that we have in the us. Rosemary the videos, like this one, highlight the citys location, workforce talent, and flexibility in terms of places to develop the facility. In addition to philadelphia, the Lehigh Valley, camden, newark, Delaware County, atlantic county, and wilmington have also made a pitch. So has harrisburg and pittsburgh. Joining me now to discuss is john boyd. John is a principal of the boyd company, which helps companies locate their businesses. Hes worked with some of the Top Companies in the country, including boeing, td bank, and pepsi. John, thanks for being with us. John boyd its good to be here. Rosemary we should say not amazon, not one of your clients. John amazon is not a client. Rosemary so, you have an independent view of this. John yes. Rosemary so, lets start with camden. Camden wants amazon to come to the waterfront. What are the chances . John and camden also benefits from new jerseys very aggressive posture on incentives. We saw governor christie officially endorse newark as the states, you know, first choice for amazon, 7 billion of incentives. So, camden would enjoy being proximate to philadelphia, of course, all the labor market advantages. Philadelphia, 104 colleges in the region, the great Public Transportation infrastructure, and of course the great Public Transit with the Philadelphia International airport, at a lower cost profile versus philadelphia. Rosemary and for camden, i mean, this would be a huge win for that city. John it would be more momentum. Camden is one of the most successful urban turnarounds in the country. You see this with all the great things happening with the Healthcare Industry there, of course with subaru, and a lot of the new white collar projects headed into camden. Rosemary so, we sort of teased, so to speak, this segment by saying boon or bust because there are advantages and some drawbacks potentially to a mega online giant like amazon coming to town. John this would be the most Significant Economic Development win in the history of pennsylvania, 50,000 jobs, an average salary of 100,000. The impact this would have on the economy is just extraordinary, everything from the housing markets, to retail, to philadelphias convention industry. The Hospitality Industry would get just a tremendous boost from attracting this. Rosemary you do have, as some may argue, potential drawbacks traffic, and also the cost of housing potentially going up, and life becoming more expensive in general. John right, theres no question attracting amazons hq too would introduce some new inflationary pressures to the housing market. However, i think a lot of those concerns are overstated. Theres already a lot of elasticity in the market, and attracting this project would no doubt promote new construction of suburban homes, new apartments, new condominiums, and new repurposing activity in the inner city for lowincome people. Rosemary Delaware County, state of delaware getting in the mix here, where do they stand . John theres a very attractive steel plant thats vacant, 425 acres in newcastle county. I obviously would expect amazon to look at that if theyre indeed sold on the philadelphia labor market. The last part of the piece of the puzzle is the real estate caution. Now, if the company is sold on philadelphia, sold on the labor market, the great transit opportunities that exist here, the question becomes, where do we put it . Rosemary lets talk about something for a minute. I often hear from our viewers that people have mixed feelings about the tax abatement that the city offers for new construction in terms of housing in the city. You get 10 years of very low, if barely any taxes. Some people think its great, others think, wait a minute, why are they getwhy are some people getting those kinds of tax breaks . So, lets talk about amazon. Is the city giving up too much in terms of tax breaks, tax incentives to try to get them here . John the harsh reality is that, for a highcost market like philadelphia, incentives are a necessary evil. Amazon is a company that expects incentives. Its the fifthlargest company in the us. Its received over 120 million 120 billion of state incentives over the years. Amazon expects incentives. Philadelphia, to be competitive, needs to offer a very strong incentive package. And i expect the city to do that. Rosemary i have heard some argue that pennsylvanias budget crisis, so to speak, may not look so great for amazon to come to the keystone state. John you know, companies today are really paying close attention to the Fiscal Health of states and the Credit Rating. Will states be able to meet their pension obligations . The concern that businesses have is that they have to pay a large share of the burden to accommodate that. But this is a special case, amazon is such a Large Company with such enormous revenue, i expect this process to really be talentdriven. They want to be sold on a labor market that provides them a new center of gravity away from seattle to attract and recruit new workers. I mean, amazon is expanding beyond their traditional ecommerce business into the media business, into the fashion industry, food and beverage industry, and increasingly into healthcare with medical devices and pharmaceuticals. And thats a unique strength that this labor market here in philadelphia has. Philadelphia is one of the most millennialfriendly cities in the country, the nightlife which people love, all distinguish philadelphia in a very positive way. Rosemary so, i have a feeling that you have an affinity for the city. I will ask you this. You know, youve got washington dc, youve got austin, youve got dozens, hundreds of places vying for amazon to bring their facility to their hometown. Who do you thinks going to win in this . John i think washington dc is a frontrunner here given jeff bezoss significant presence in that market. Of course, he owns the washington post. Amazon has a long laundry list of lobbying priorities. I think being in a nations epicenter of lawmaking can be part of their brand perhaps. But i think philadelphia is a top ten contender. I think the new york city marketplace is also a leading contender for this. Also, atlanta and boston i think are also frontrunners. Rosemary all right. So, were going to have to see how this all shakes out. John boyd, thank you so much for being with us, appreciate your insight, and well wait till 2018 to see what amazonwhere amazon picks to put their Second Headquarters. Coming up next on nbc10 issue. Mack hollins thatsi mean, thats whats going to happen, little o 2028 when i turn 35. Rosemary he may be a rookie, but eagles wide receiver mack hollins is already thinking about his next career. And its a job that may surprise you, what i learned during our recent bike ride through south philly. But dont be surprised if, one day, eagles wide receiver mack hollins changes careers, moving into politics. He told me all about it on a bike ride in south philly. Its his mode of transportation to and from practice and home games. Mack really, with anything, though, if you dont believe in yourself, nobody will. Rosemary before scoring touchdowns male announcer inside the 15, inside the 10, touchdown. Mack hollins, the rookie out of North Carolina. Rosemary or even being fitted for an eagles helmet, mack hollins had plenty to tackle. Mack i didnt get recruited by the coaches at unc at all. Come on, man. Rosemary hollinss road to North Carolina began at Wootton High School in maryland. He stood out; his team did not. So, he enrolled at Fort Union Military Academy and gambled on himself. Mack thats exactly what it was, it was a gamble. I didnt know if id get a shot, i didnt know how fort union was going to be. But it ended up being really the greatest experience that i would say helped me get here. Rosemary here is the novacare complex, and how he gets here is whats so unique. Mack oh yeah, the big twowheel. I just get on the pedal bike, and i just find my way over here. Rosemary have you always ridden bikes . Mack i have a motorcycle, so i rode a motorcycle in college, and thats not really a thing here in the nfl. Rosemary i think were going to get on the bikes and go for a little bit of a ride, okay . Mack oh yeah. Rosemary mack rides to practice and games on his bike. He took us along pattison avenue and brought us for a ride through fdr park. So, one of your old coaches said, the sky is the limit with mack. I mean, this guy could be president of the united states. Mack yeah, i mean, thats how itshow its going to be. Its little o 2028, when i turn 35 and im able to run for president. Since high school, that waspeople called me little o. Rosemary really . Mack yeah, little obama. Rosemary wow. Mack i had the briefcase and suit in school. Rosemary thats right, you wore a suit to school, what, your senior year in high school . Mack yeah. Rosemary every day . Mack oh yeah, dress for where you want to go, not for where you are. Rosemary all right, so is the white house where youre headed . Mack oh yeah. As soon as im legally of age, thats where thats where my eyes go to. Rosemary short term, what do you see here in philadelphia . Mack i mean, the biggest goal, and really the only reason why i play and why im so happy that im in philly is to put a ring on my finger at the end of the year. You know, bring the first one to philadelphia. Rosemary all right, mack, i think this is the end of the road. Mack yeah. Thank you so much. Rosemary yeah, thank you. Really appreciate you showing us, you know, showing us the route around here. Mack do it on the two wheels. Rosemary yeah, exactly. Mack its not too bad. Rosemary all right, good luck. Mack all right, yall, ill see you. Rosemary wondering what he was listening to . Frank sinatra, and he even has him on vinyl. Hes a husband, father, veteran. But most of all, hes a fighter. Chris brown has never been afraid to take on the big fights. Thats why he stood up to republicans and democrats alike to fight the north jersey casinos and the takeover of atlantic city. Chris brown is fighting to protect jobs in our region. A true champion for the working men and women of atlantic county. On november 7th, lets keep him fighting for us. Chris brown for state senate, hes on our side. A cosmic crash of two superdense neutron stars has allowed scientists to uncover secrets like where gold comes from. Researchers say the stars collided about 1. 4 billion years ago, but the echo created by the collision had to travel about 130 million light years before highly sensitive detectors on earth heard the faint noise back in august. Scientists say the collision created a huge burst of gamma rays and a gravitational wave which caused a ripple in the fabric of space, first theorized by albert einstein, food for thought on this sunday. Thats it for this edition of nbc10 issue. Thanks for joining us, have a great day. Every four years, the world comes together to marvel at a sport on ice. In an olympic season, figure skatings grand prix takes on added meeting. A globe crossing season of hurdles for stars to conquer on the way to their games. First stop is moscow, russia, where two american women will see how they measure up against the favorite for olympic gold. An american phenom seeks to unseat japanese royalty in the reigning olympic champion. It all