Transcripts For WRC Meet The Press 20151004

States. Has the u. S. Ceded the upper hand . Joining me are mark leibovich, amy holmes of the blaze, ruth marcus of the Washington Post and rich lowry of the National Review. Welcome to sunday, its meet the press. Good sunday morning. This week roseburg, oregon, joined the roll call of american towns that have suffered a mass shooting. Nine victims from 18 to 67 gunned down on a Community College campus. Jason johnson. Serena daun moore, lucero alcaraz, rebecca carnes, quinn cooper, trevin taylor, Lawrence Levine and kim dietz. Familiar questions about how this could have happened and what it means for the battle over the issue of guns in america. Well get to all of the politics in just a moment but for the latest i want to go to nbcs Miguel Almaguer who is in roseburg. Migu miguel, i want you to address we heard from the shooters father who decided to weigh in on the gun debate. Tell me more about it. Absolutely. Chuck. The gunmans father, 26yearold chris harper mercer, unloaded several rounds inside the campus behind me. Police say he was heavily armed. We now know he told students inside that classroom to get together, to lie in the center of the classroom and then began shooting them. He told one lucky survivor, he said apparently according to his victims that they would pass on a manifesto to police that would lead them to more information about the shooting. As you mentioned, the victims father is also speaking out for the first time about gun violence and his son. Heres what he said. How on earth could he compile 13 guns . How can that happen . They talk about gun laws, they talk about gun control. Every time Something Like this happens they talk about it and nothing is done. Im not trying to say that thats to blame for what happened but if chris had not been able to get ahold of 13 guns, it wouldnt have happened. Chuck, this is sparking a National Debate but interestingly enough, shortly after that interview with cnn we spoke to a victim survivor here at the hospital and she said she believes more people should be carrying guns inside campuses like this one. So its an interesting debate even after all of the bloodshed and massacre here. Its igniting the country. Miguel almaguer, this is a debate whether is it about gun control or gunfree zones . Well get to that. Let me go to data. According to mass shooter tracker data which defines a mass shooting as an incident where four or more people are shot there have been 294 Mass Shootings alone, nearly a thousand since the database was created in the wake of the sandy hook shooting. Thats more than one a day. The u. S. Has a gun homicide rate nearly four times higher than switzerland, six times canada, 16 times germany, 21 times australia and 49 times the rate in france. But the high profile shootings havent shifted views on gun control. Though 87 of americans favor expanded background checks, last year for the first time in more than two decades its a higher percentage of americans, 52 , who said it was more important to protect the right of americans to own guns than to control gun ownership. We saw the divide play out this week beginning with a visibly frustrated president who admitted he was politicizing the issue. Somehow this has become routine. Whats also routine is that somebody somewhere will comment and say obama politicized this issue. Well, something something we should politicize. On the campaign trail, republican candidates responded and sounded strikingly similar. I always find it interesting that the reflexive reaction on the left is to say we need more gun laws. Criminals dont follow gun laws, only law abiding people follow gun laws. Gun control only works for normal law abiding citizens. It doesnt work for crazies. You take guns away from people who are law abiding, the people who cause these horrible things will still have them. Before we start calling for more laws i think we ought to consider why we dont enforce the laws we have. Its very sad to see but i resist the notion and i did i had this challenge as governor because we had look, stuff happens. Theres always a crisis. And the impulse is always to do something and its not necessarily the right thing to do. And on friday i sat down with the republican frontrunner donald trump and asked him to react to the president s statement on the shooting. Well, you know, i watched his statement and i understand exactly what hes saying but you know, no matter what you do, guns, no guns, it doesnt matter, you have people that are mentally ill and theyre going to come through the cracks and theyre going to do things people wont even believe are possible and whether its the School Shootings which are really very prevalent in this country, they seem to be more prevalent in this country. Whats your explanation . Theyre just sick people. They are mentally imbalanced and they probably see it happening here more so. Do you think we have more mentally ill people than other countries . I think we have of copycats, they watch it and see it here and the world can be a sick place in so many different ways but we have mentally very unstable people and that will lead. Its not politically correct to say, you can have the best security, you can have the best everything but people are able to get in and do this you know, just terrible damage. This is a startling statistics. 153,000 people have died from gunshots since 9 11. And counting 9 11, up to just over 3,000 people have died from terrorist attacks. The president s point is we have devoted all these energies to prevent terrorism. Should there be a sense of urgency on this . So the way i look at it, you take chicago, you take baltimore, you take various other places where you have tremendous gun violence and death, right . The strictest laws in the United States, in the world, for guns happens to be chicago where they have a lot of problems. Baltimore, a lot of the places where you have the biggest problem is where they have the strongest laws. But local laws without a National Floor are pointless. But the problem you have is the strongest, the most stringent laws are in almost every case the worst places. It doesnt seem to work. Its a tough situation, chuck. Its a tough situation and when i know it comes to the schools its Mental Health. Its a mental problem. You dont believe this is a we have too many guns . Do you think theres too many guns in america . Y could make the case that the school that we just went through and i see was a gunfree zone and you were not allowed to have guns at fall that particular area and you can make the case that it would have been a lot better had people had guns because they had something to fire back. You say you can make the case. Do you make the case . Well, i would say it couldnt be much worse. I think the police did a great job, they got there quickly and they were able to kill him but you can i can make the case that if there were guns in that room other than his fewer people would have died. Fewer people would have been so horribly injured. Well get to the rest of my interview with donald trump on his tax plan, how he plans to pay for it, the middle east, wait until you hear his position there, and what make him decide to get out of the race someday. Thats coming up in a few minutes. But first lets bring back the panel. Mark leibovich of the New York Times magazine, amy holmes, news anchor for the blaze, thats the glenn beck tevision network, ruth marcus columnist in for the Washington Post and rich lowry, editor of the National Review let me show up that statistic of the number of people that have died from terrorist attacks and the number of people that have died from l proposals for solutions, should we have a sense of urgency with the equivalency of the way we tackle terrorism . Well, its the core responsibility of the government to protect us from foreign enemies. The reason the gun debate is going nowhere and is so sterile is anything you do at the margins is not going to stop these kind of Mass Shootings and anything could do that would be much more sweeping is going to run afoul of a fundamental constitutional right to bear arms. Its interesting, ruth, i went ahead and did we looked up, the requirements for getting a car, sentially, registering a car and the requirements for getting a permit for a gun, all 50 states you have to get a license or permit to drive a car, 13 states for a gun. All 50 states require various forms of testing to drive a car. Six states require it to get a gun permit. And with a car you register regularly, sometimes on a yearly basis, sometimes biyearly, only six states require that. Is that unfair . As rich pointed out in the constitution, theres no right to drive a car in the constitution. Yes. And rich really correctly points out the cruel paradox here which is that the measures that would be most effective are also the most politically unimaginable and unconstitutional. But rich you mistake the total role of government. Its not simply to protect us from foreign enemies. Its to make sure we have a safe and livable environment and to quote jeb bush, too much stuff is happening on guns. So we need within the constraints of Public Opinion and the constraints of the constitution to figure out solutions to keep us safe. I have two daughters on college campuses. I watch these things and i am terrified and i think whatever your political view point is you should be terrified and simply to say that theres crazy people and stuff happens is abdicating governments responsibility. Amy, what is the sense of urgency that we should have . I think we should have a sense of urgency about what do we do with these angry misfit malcontents who we also know are inspired by watching the news about Mass Shootings. Mass shootings tend to happen in clusters, they often telegraph, advertise their intention to commit this violence. So when i look at the debate being routine or sterile or stale as youre putting it, rich, it shifts immediately to gun control and not other issues surrounding mass shooters and what can we do to try to prevent these mainly young men from committing these violent acts . Well, should there be more hurd hurdles . Yes the Mental Health issue but its more than Mental Health. Its the fame theyre seeking, the notoriety theyre seeking, the way media plays into that, by turning them into celebrities. Most of them say its fascinating and disturbing that they want to be famous. Theres no doubt theres a media role. I dont want to mention the guys name anymore. Hes been mentioned once, im not going to voice his name. But as the president points out, were not the only country with crazy people. Thats true. Look, the president had this entire debate with himself. You saw it. He anticipated all of the tropes unfolding over a several day period all of which has happened. He anticipated what the republican president ial candidates would say, what congress would say. The issue is politicized. I dont even when he said they should politicize the issue, it is politicized, its politicized because the nra pretty much owns more than half of congress. That is why this issue is basically immutable. You mentioned the constitution, Public Opinion. The other piece is the political impossibility of anyone i have a challenge. Can you name me the last candidate who lost because they werent for gun control . Thats a lot of silence here. I mean, thats if you want to know when the politics would change, right, rich lowry . I can list you dozens of candidates whove lost because of their position because they were too pro gun control. The. The nra represents real people which is why its so powerful and what i really objected to in the president s statement, i dont mind politicizing an issue where we have a debate about public policy, thats what politics is, but its the sense he gave that theres some magic button that we can be pushed and we all know what it is and that we dont have the political will to push it. You look at the specific things the left tends to talk about that are more marginal, universal background checks. Well, a lot of these guys passed the background checks we already have because they dont have prior records. The assault weapons ban lapse should we have a higher level of background checks . If someone hasnt committed a crime or been add jujudicated wa mental disorder, in the second amendment, you wont prevent people from buying a gun. There is no perfect solution but there are marginal improvements. Limit the size of magazines, that would have stopped shared loughner from killing as many people before he stopped to reload. Make the background checks so its not automatic that you get it if its not completed in three days, that might have stopped dylann roof from having his guns. We have to do something. Just because no solution is perfect doesnt mean theres nothing we should do. These arent impulse killers. Theyre people who are sitting and stewing and i think amys point is an important one. Columbine created a cultural norm where if youre disturbed and disaffected you go out in a blaze of infamy. We need to disempower that norm. And give families tools that if they have one of these young men under their roofs that they are able to address it. Im going to pause this debate because well never end it. Its one of those where everybody should admit they would be willing to put everything on the table. Well be back with the rest of my [ male announcer ] we know theyre out there. 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Welcome back and now to the rest of my interview with donald trump beginning with the tax plan he released that analysts say would blow an enormous hole in the deficit anywhere from 10 trillion to 12 trillion. Everybodys taxes are going down and some people wont pay tax and the reason they wont pay and i love the idea of having a little sort of fat in the game, if we can, but the fact is these are people that are doing very poorly. I mean, theyre making not a lot of money and were saving a tremendous amount of administrative costs and other things by not making them pay. Under my plan, i think its a very dynamic plan, were going to grow the economy. Hey, if china does it 7 having a terrible year, were saying we cant do it 3 and 4 . We just had 4 last quarter. Well, we also had zero percent the rst quarter. I understand, but we had 4 the last quarter. A little less than 4 . 3. 9 . It was what . 3. 9 last quarter. But if you look at the overall average, were doing less than 2 for the year. So we can do really terrifically. China, if they do 7 right, but in an emerging economy, its going to go 6 , 7 . If we do 6 our sweet spot is 3 to 5 . If we do 6 or 7 under my plan weve never had a year of 6 or 7 . But we can do that. How . Well, first of all, a couple things, number one, corporate inversion is a big deal and thats getting worse and worse. Companies will be leaving here. In the old days theyd leave new york and go to florida, leave new jersey and go to texas. Theyre leaving the United States now and going out to different whether its ireland and lots of other places in europe and asia and theyre leaving and there are Many Companies right now, chuck, that are talking about very seriously leaving this country and youre talking about thousands of jobs and a couple of these are big, powerful companies with lots of jobs. What youre saying is you make it up with growth . No, not all up with growth. We also start cutting because the waste in this country is unbelievable. Youre going to get rid of entire departments . I would get rid of some. As an example, department of education. Youd get rid of it . Not entirely. But id get rid of a lot of it. Look at jeb bush, hes a big common core person. Im not. I want local education. We could say a fortune with environmental protection. Financially not a big department, though, you wont get rid of a lot. Its a lot of money. Well what is another agency. Mechb the military. Im going to build the military, it will be much stronger. It will be so strong, nobody will mess but w us but we can do it for less. They sent a washer from South Carolina to texas, it cost 997,000. It was fraud. It was fraud. So you believe we can spend less money on defense than we do today . I think we can defense much stronger, spend somewhat less money and increase so cut the Defense Budget and make the military stronger . Chuck, when they send an 18cent washer from South Carolina to texas and it costs almost a Million Dollars to bring it there because of the fraud and abuse and everything else, it was a fraud but there have been many cases like that, we can save so much. When a hammer you buy at home depot for 8 costs 900 do you know how many politicians have said this over the years . I know, but im not a politician. If i get waste, fraud and abuse im not a politician. Im a business gye. Of course for the last three months im a politician. It never happens. Watch it happen with me. Lets move to syria. Okay. You came across to me as if you welcomed putins involvement in syria. You said it was sort of like you saw very little down side. Why . Ill tell you why. I am somebody that and you know ive been saying this a long time. I want our military to be beyond no contest because militaries have to be technologically so we probably have a big advantage. We are going to get bogged down in syria. If you look at what happened with the soviet union in afghanistan, thats when they went bankrupt. So you think putin will get suckered in theyll get bogged down. Everybody thats touched the middle east, they get bogged down. Putin does not want isis. Know they havent hitting them as hard theyre hitting people weve trained. Excuse me. Theyre hitting people, were talking about people we dont know. The rebel group, we have no idea. I was talking to a general two days ago. Were training people, we dont know who they are . And you know what . Im not saying assad is a good guy, hes probably a gad guy. But ive watched him many times if you look at libya, rook what we did there. Its a mess. It will be the same thing. Do you think the middle east would be better off today if qaddafi, saddam and assad were sort of if saddam and qaddafi were still there and assad were stronger . Do you think the middle east would be safer . Its not even a contest. Its not even a contest. Iraq is s a disaster. So it would be better if you have a saddam were in charge. Dont forget, isis came out of iraq. Let me button this up. With saddam and qaddafi things would be more stable . Of course. You wouldnt have had your benghazi situation which was just a terrible situation. Is of course it would. Libya is not even nobody knows whats going on. So you welcome putins involvement . I like that putin is bombing the hell out of isis. Why do you trust him and nobody else does . I dont trust him at all other than we both got good ratings the other night on 60 minutes because it was with me and putin. Did i get the ratings or did he . I dont want to see the United States weve spent now 2 trillion in iraq, probably a trillion in afghanistan. Were destroying our country. We owe 19 trillion were bogged down. Russia was bogged down in afghanistan meaning the soviet union. You watch, as sure as youre sitting there im the one that said dont do iraq. So you would pull out of what were doing in syria right now . This is not usually me talking because im very proactive as you probably know. I know. But i would sit back and lets see whats going on. Heres the problem to what youre saying in syria. We are fighting assad and were fighting for people and helping people that we dont know who they are. And they may be worse than assad. They may be worse. And if assad never happened, if you didnt have the problem in syria you would havent the migration, you wouldnt be talking about countries with whats going on in europe and now theyre talking about taking 200,000 people that we dont know who they are and bringing them to the United States . The whole thing is ridiculous. So im not justifying putin. But hell get bogged down there. Hell be there. Hell spend a fortune, hell be begging to get out. Two more questions i want to get at you. You said youre not a masochist and if you start falling in the polls youll go back to your business. What does that mean . Are you not in this for the long haul or not . Its a strange thing. You said it with my buddy john harwood and it caught my ear. Im like uhoh. What does that mean . A lot of people have asked me that question. Number one, im not a masochist and if i was dropping in the polls where i saw i wasnt going to win why would i continue . Maybe its like not like me because its a power of positive thinking and i a positive person but the truth is im a realist. Im doing great in the polls right now. I think you will say. Im leading everything. Leading in every poll. By a lot. In the republican primaries. Not only leading by a lot. General elections are different stories. Were not there yet. I believe in polls. How many elections do you see where the polls were wrong . Not that many. You theme, but not that many. If i were doing poorly, if i saw myself going down, if you would stop calling me because you no longer have any interest in trump because he has no chance, i go back to my business. I have no problem with that. Well, there it is. Boy, theres a lot to chew over there, particularly what he said about the middle east and his own poll ratings, we deal that later in the show. And theres more to that interview on our web site, meetthepressnbc. Com. When we come back, we have something donald trump loves, polls. Our latest polls out of iowa and New Hampshire. Youll be surprised at who gained the most and who lost the most. Donald trump will be surprised about who lost the most. Thats coming up in a second. Start the interview with a firm handshake. Ay,no dont do that try head shoulders instant relief. It cools on contact, and also keeps you 100 flake free. Try head shoulders instant relief. For cooling relief in a snap. The artificial heart, this ielectric guitarsdoers, and rockets to the moon. Its the story of america land of the doers. Doin it. Did it. Done. Doers built this country. The dams and the railroads. John henry was a steel drivin man hmm, catchy. They built the golden gates and the empire states. And all this doin takes energy no matter whos doin. Theres all kinds of doin up in here. Or what theyre doin. What the hecks he doin . Energy got us here. And its our job to make sure theres enough to keep doers doin the stuff doers do. To keep us all doin what we do. Befi was active. Gia, i was a doer. Then the chronic, widespread pain slowed me down. My doctor and i agreed that moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. He also prescribed lyrica. For some patients, lyrica significantly relieves fibromyalgia pain and improves physical function. With less pain, i feel better. Lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. Tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression or unusual changes in mood or behavior. Or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. Common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. Dont drink alcohol while taking lyrica. Dont drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. Those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. Fibromyalgia may have changed things. But with less pain, im still a doer. Ask your doctor about lyrica. You know what that music means. Its time for nerdscreen. This weeks nerdscreen all about our nbc news wall street journal marist polls out of iowa and New Hampshire. The republican race in iowa, the leader is the say, donald trump, but his lead is down five points from the last time we tested a month ago. Ben carson in second is down three. The movers here in iowa, Carly Fiorina, she jumped three points into third place, jeb bush in the high Single Digits there. Lets look at the rest of this second tier. Crui cruz, rubio, jindal, huckabee and christy aie. Bobby jindal may feel good about this. If your candidate isnt on here, they develop top 3 in this field. Now lets look at the New Hampshire primary here. Donald trump still in the lead but look at this, his number has dropped a whopping seven points. Carly fiorina first time shes in second place in any of the early states, she jumped a double digit. Is 10 points, shes up to 16 . Jeb bush, rubio, carson in double digits. Jeb bush may be benefitting from a multimillion Dollar Ad Campaign he has in New Hampshire. Lets look at the second tier in New Hampshire, christie, kasich, cruz and paul. Look at the news here, john kasichs double digits have been cut in half. Lets look at the democrats. Here things are stable. In iowa clinton ahead 47 36 . Its close but shes holding the lead. In New Hampshire, again, status quo but status quo is not good for Hillary Clinton. Bernie sanders at 48 and that state that neighbors vermont. Hillary clinton sitting at 39 . By the way, when you throw joe biden in here, guess whose lead expands . Bernie sanders. Coming up, well break down the 2016 race and look at what happens in washington when you say what a lot of people think is the truth but you do it accidentally. You disco so whats your news . I got a job ill be programming at ge. Oh i got a job too, at zazzies. friends gasp the app where you put fruit hats on animals . I love that guys, ill be writing code that helps machines communicate. interrupting i just zazzied you. phone vibrates look at it friends giggle i can do dogs, hamsters, guinea pigs. You name it. Im going to transform the way the world works. proudly i programmed that hat. And i can do casaba melons. Ill be helping turbines power cities. I put a turbine on a cat. friends ooh and ahh i can make hospitals run more efficiently. This isnt a competition why should over two hundred years of citi history matter to you . Well, because it tells us something powerful about progress that whether times are good or bad, people and their ideas will continue to move the world forward. As long as they have someone to believe in them. Citi financed the transatlantic cable that connected continents. And the panama canal, that made our world a smaller place. We backed the Marshall Plan that helped europe regain its strength. And pioneered the atm, for cash, anytime. For over two centuries weve supported dreams like these, and the people and companies behind them. So why should that matter to you . Because, today, we are still helping progress makers turn their ideas into reality. And the next great idea could be yours. A lot to digest, trump, those poll, the panel is back. Mark leibovich, i have to first start with what we see in those poll, Carly Fiorina spiking into second place. Everythi everything seems to shake up below trump. These arent great numbers for him but hes still ahead. The shakeup is underneath him. It is but the fact that theres such a big bunch, the fact that that itself is fluid helps trump a lot because it makes in a way it stabilizes his support because it turns the rest of the field into sort of an antitrump vote. He has shes slipped a bit. Fiorina whats interesting now is were seeing statebystate polls. Iowa, New Hampshire, its tightening for trump and the question is if he loses iowa, does he recover in New Hampshire . If you think about this state by state, does he have any organization in those places . Its interesting, amy. There are 11 different candidates that scored 5 or better in iowa or New Hampshire. This field is still very fluid. Very fluid and voters are still undecided. Youre seeing that churn, i have to imagine for jeb bush that whats keeping him warm at night is that actually neither of the last two republican nominees were chosen in iowa. John mccain and mitt romney. Hes thinking maybe he can survive this if hes not doing well right now. And in the New Hampshire poll its the first evidence money might matter. Hes outspending the field right now and hes in double digits. Lets see where he is at the end of the month. Hes outspending the field and he has a large amount in the bank but the news this this poll isnt the undercard. Its trump. If you look at this poll and other polls, the numbers are starting. We dont know whether theyll plateau but the trend line is no good for trump and what he told you and told mark is that this guy the other and can its all have president ial fever. They will slog through the snows look at bobby jindal, hes been suffering and he was fighting. Thats what they want. Trump does not have president ial fever, he has attention fever and once the attention is off him he doesnt do smatterings, he told you. Once the attention is off him, hes out of there. Well talk more trump later in the show. Lets turn into whats going on in the republican conference inside the house. Kevin mccarthy is in hot water for comments he made about the benghazi committee. Some might argue it is the classic Michael Kinsley gaffe, he accidentally told the truth. Lets hear what he said first. Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right . But we put together a Benghazi Special committee, a select committee, what are her numbers today . Her numbers are dropping. Why . Because shes untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened had we noting made that happen. And boy republicans didnt like it. Jason chaffetz who announced hes officially going to challenge mccarthy for the speakership went after mccarthy hard for the comment. To suggest that there is any sort of political motivation is absolutely its not fair to mr. Gowdy, its not fair to myself and most importantly its not fair to those four families who lost the loved ones. I think he should withdraw that statement. I think he needs to express how wrong it was. It was never the intention, its not what were doing and i think statement is totally wrong. Rich, ive talked to a lot of republicans on the house who are furious at mccarthy because they feel as if they just handed Hillary Clinton a talking point for the october 22 testimony. Lets set that aside. Is mccarthy in trouble . Yes, he is. In this sense. He has a strong lock on the House Republican caucus. He probably has 190 votes. He needs more. He needs to get 218 on the floor to become speaker and its not clear hes going to get there. So its extremely unsettled and the only prediction id feel confident in making is there will be another speaker of the house but i dont know meaning when . By the end of this year or next year . I dont know. The best case mccarthy will have to make is, look, i have the most support within the conference, we dont want to mbarrass ourselves with chaos. Ive heard republicans going no offense to Jason Chaffetz but where is the rest of the ateam . Wheres paul ryan . Wheres Jeb Hensarling . Wheres people that might get 218 . People who are looking for standard bearers. A little bit more of the statesman. The person who im looking at who i think is sitting very pretty is jim jordan, the head of the Freedom Caucus which is going to be pivotal in choosing the next house boy did not boehner not like him. You do not have to be a writer for house of cards to imagine the dealing that jim jordan might become oversight chairman if hes willing to promise his Freedom Caucus. Ruth marcus, Hillary Clinton campaign. She came out and was very stern and lecturing. I mean, she wanted to break out in cheers, right . I think she was doing a little jig kind of right off camera there. What a gift and lord knows she needs it. She was literally this was no doubt that i think setting up gowdy versus clinton was going to be now gowdy has been undermined, right . Completely undermined. Its an unbelievable statement that this happened. Yes it might have been the truth but youre not supposed to tell the truth. Not only does she have a soundbite but shell be able to repeat this over and over and over again. Its not just that she can repeat it, its that the attacks on her have to be muted now to the extent that it was going to be a hillary bashing fest on october 22, they need to but gowdy isnt stupid. Hell change his tact. If republican investigative committees had the power to diminish hillarys poll numbers she would have been at zero a long time ago and what mccarthy was trying to say, ineptly, is the committee through its work uncovered a key and very important thing that has hurt Hillary Clinton. And if he said it like that . Im available for speaker. [ laughter ] whats amazing about mccarthys statement is that its not only stupid, its wrong. It wasnt the hearing driving down her poll numbers, it was the email scandal. Well, more importantly there are a lot of conservatives who believe and theyre offended by mccarthys statement. Anyway, put the pause button there, well get to the other news of the week, russias military moving into syria. Did the u. S. Lose control of the region . As if it had it. Or did russia step into its own quagmire . Quagmire . And later hillary welcome to todays quagmire . And later hillary working world. Companies everywhere are working harder and investing more. But achieving the right outcomes has never been more difficult. Xerox engineers a better way for people, process and technology to work together. Improving how the world shops, travels, pleases customers, learns, banks, and stays healthy, so. Life works better. Work can work better. With xerox. Jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive my siand mouthwash all the toothtime. Im like, huh . Arent they all the same . You know, i had to see for myself. So i went pro. With crest prohealth advanced. Advance to a healthier, stronger, cleaner mouth from day 1. This toothpaste. And mouthwash make my whole mouth feel amazing. And my teeth stronger. Crest prohealth advanced is superior in these 5 areas dentists check. This is gonna go well, for sure. Advance to a healthier stronger, cleaner mouth from day 1. Great check up. My sister was right. Can a a subconscious. Mind . A knack for predicting the future. Reflexes faster than the speed of thought. Can a business have a spirit . Can a business have a soul . Can a business be. Alive . Welcome back. U. S. Air strikes killed 19 people at a Doctors Without Borders hospital in the city of kunduz in afghanistan yesterday. President obama has offered his deepest condolences but did not apologize for the air strikes. Instead he promised to launch an investigation. The United Nations has condemned the incident and even suggested it might amount to a war crime. Doctors without borders, who have denied that taliban fighters were hiding in the hospital, say the bombardment went on for more than 30 minutes despite the fact they were continuously raising the alarm bells with u. S. And afghan officials about what was going on in their gps coordinates. But, of course, this week elsewhere in the region the news has been in syria where on wednesday with one hours notice russia launched air strikes in syria focused on antiassad fighters rather than isis. And on mtp daily, Republican Senate Foreign Relations chair bob corker, who is not always somebody who tosses bombs over at the obama administration, could not hide his frustration. I really hope the president doesnt give another statement, because every time he does, nothing happens, our credibility is diminished. And putin knows nothing is going to happen. But on friday the president did speak about russias action in syria at the white house. Mr. Putin had to go into syria not out of strength but out of weakness. Because his client, mr. Assad, was crumbling and it was insufficient for him simply to send them arms and money. Joining me now is mike mcfall, the former u. S. Ambassador to russia under president obama, and steven hadley, george w. Bushs last National Security advisor. Gentlemen, welcome to you both. Ambassador mcfall, let me start with you. To unpack the president s statement there, he said putin was going in out of a position of weakness because assad was crumbling. By that logic, if assad was on that close to crumbling, did we miss an opportunity to sort of push assad over the crumbling line six months ago . I would say four years ago, chuck. The real moment for opportunity for change in syria was when there were hundreds of thousands of peaceful demonstrators, assad looked very weak then, isis did not exist in syria at the moment and that was an opportunity lost. Six months ago or two weeks ago i think its a much more complex terrain, though i do agree with the president , putin has had the same policy for four years, which is to support assad. He believes thats a way to peace and stability in syria. That policy of putins hasnt worked, so hes had to double down with these latest military attacks. Steven hadley, lets look at where we are now. Obviously we can go back and i think everybody is backseat driving the president , including Hillary Clinton on that front. Does this mean now that despite us wanting to say assad has to go before you can fully defeat isis, that were stuck with assad . Well, i think we need to step back and say what are our objectives here . Our objective is theres a huge humanitarian crisis that is overwhelming the neighboring states, its threatening europe. We have isis, which controls territory. They are training tens of thousands of terrorists that at some point will be coming back against our friends and allies and potentially the United States. And we have a civil war going on and as long as that civil war goes on, this chaos and violence will continue. So we have to step back and say what are our objectives here, what do we need to do . I think the first step we need do is we need to get engaged. Weve been basically absent without leave for the last four years, and the situation has degenerated in the way a lot of people projected. So the first step is the United States has to be engaged, and if youre worried about russia establishing a sphere of influence and iranian hegemony, the way to stop that is for the United States to start leading. Ambassador mcfaul, do you think its possible we sort of held back because we didnt want to chase the iranians away from the table during the nuclear deal . No, i dont think there is a linkage between that at all. I think back when i was in the government there was a sense that assad was going to fall, and therefore for us to engage we would only make that problem worse. Having said that, the policy changed a year ago. I want to point out to your viewers, weve had 7,000 attacks in iraq and syria against isis. Were fighting that fight, we just havent achieved the results that we want. But we are definitely engaged in a military way against isis today in syria. And speaking of that policy, this is a Bipartisan Group of senators that went from joe manchin with democrats to a mike lee in the republican side of the aisle who want to introduce legislation to stop the training of moderate rebels. Basically, that this policy isnt working, theres evidence its not working well. Where are you on this, ambassador . I think it would be not prudent right now to stop what were doing. We need to have some allies in syria. Putins argument, just to be clear about putin, he says everybodys a terrorist, theres nobody to work with but assad, and my own sense of that is just trying to shore up assad without an alternative, without a discussion about a political transition means that the civil war with continue. So i agree with steve, we need to be engaged but we need to be engaged on trying to put together a political transition in syria, because otherwise it will remain a civil war for a long time. Whos at that table . Political transition. Reality check. Iran has to be at that table whether we like it or not. Russia has to be at that table whether we like it or not. I think they do. The question is before you get to that table you have to make it clear that youre willing to support the kind of outcome which is inclusive and which involves ultimately assad leaving, that winds down the violence and unifies the country against isis. So, yes, it has to be a regional activity, and lot of europeans need to be involved, our friends and allies in the region need to be involve. But the focus needs to be there has to be an entry ticket in terms of the set of principles you need to accept before you sit at the table and we need to see if we can get a broadbased coalition government. Ambassador mcfaul, Hillary Clinton called for a nofly zone at this point. President obama, when he reacted to it, he said its not a halfbaked idea but you say things on the campaign trail that you might do differently if youre president. It was the closest youd get to him criticizing that idea. What do you make of her proposal of a nofly zone now . I think it comes out of a sense of frustration that were not achieving our objectives. Theres no argument about what the objectives are in syria. Theres an argument about the strategy for achieving them. And to consider a nofly zone, it would have to be a coalition nofly zone, by the way, not just a unilateral one by the United States. At least it should be considered. And when i was in the Government People would say things on the outside and we would say publicly weve considered that and then we would think about it. So i think its good for the debate that we consider this option right now. Steven hadley, i have to get you to respond to donald trump, what he said, the middle east would be better off today with saddam, gadhafi, and a stronger assad. Its amazing. Assad this began with Peaceful Demonstrations against assads brutality and treatment of his people and its only when assad declared war on his people that we got into this cycle of violence. And to say it would be better for a man that has killed over 250,000 people, displaced half of his country, ruined his economy, that it would be better for him to stay in power . I mean, its a kind of lesson to the worrell. The if you kill enough of your own people, the world will let you stay in power. Thats a terrible lesson. Its not america. Its not what we stand for. Steven hadley, ambassador mike mcfaul, former ambassador of russia under the obama administration. I totally agree with steve. Thank you. You got it. I slept in so i missed whether stanford won or lost last night. Stanford crushed arizona. Fair enough. Well be back this our moment with that end game segment and the thing donald trump said about why he might someday sort of potentially get out of the race. You can collect rainwater to shower with, but there are easier ways to go green. Like taking shorter showers, which conserves water and lowers your bill. Youll sing long ballads in the rain and short ditties in the shower. The more you know so in a similar way you realize you cant be dismissive. Anyone who is dismissive of donald trump at this point, certainly in the media, is an idiot. Essentially look, the guy is leading in the polls, its legitimate. And when you asked him the question what would it take for you to get out of the race, you know, it was a surprising answer but it was a realitybased answer. It was the kind of question most politicians would duck. They would say i intend to win. Right, the only poll that matters is the one on election day. They should throw cliches out there and that in a way is a window into why so many people find it so thrilling that theres a person who will speak that way. To be a political candidate is to risk and very often experience soulcrushing humiliation and its not clear at all that that is what donald trump signed up for. And thats what i take away from it, ruth, and you mentioned it, he doesnt desire to be president , he will not accept having to do what john mccain did fall in the polls and carry his own luggage. Donald trump does not carry his own luggage. Made that clear to you. Did not like the jimmy carter carrying his own luggage. I think what he wants about being president and he doesnt need the plane or the big house he wants the adulation of being president. He doesnt want the hard work. And thats the fear that republicans have that even if donald trump were to lose, if he only loses just a little bit, that he might want to stay in because of that adulation. But when i heard his remarks about you know, there are other things i could do, im a billionaire, im terrific, it was echoes of george w. Bush who said i dont need to win, i dont need to feed my ego. A little different but i think the public reacts to that well that this guy isnt one of these lets remember the context. Bush was saying in context to running against al gore who his whole life was to prepare him for running for president. Lets talk about underneath. Dan balz in the Washington Post essentially did what is dangerous in washington. He said well, okay, theres carson, trump, and fiorina but really the race will come down to bush, kasich and rubio. I think hes right but im not willing to go out on that limb yet. This is not a moment. Its now a fourmonth period. People say oh, well like herman cain and Michele Bachmann they had moments in 2012. No, this is a sustained movement. He also has unlimited money. What donald trump is showing people is how you can free yourself up from a lot of headaches and not to mention busy work when you have money and he hasnt spent any of it. And ben carson has raised 20 million. He had to spend a lot to raise a lot but thats more cash on hand that jeb bush has. Absolutely. You have conventional wisdom now and bush and rubio and kasich. It used to be bush rubio and walker and how did that turn snout i think trump is very vulnerable in iowa. After the tsunami of earned media, hes just ahead by five points and its usually not the new york billionaires who know about the bible who thrive in iowa. Ruth, very quickly. Bush this week got caught tracking rubio. Rubios campaign kicked him out. We know they are somewhere in ohio digging through the archives of kasich. Are they being too ham handed . I think this is the moment for ham handedness because theyre so far down in where they are. My quickie prediction, weve spent time talking about anger and authenticity, well Start Talking about electability and thats when we get to dans undercard. Who knows . Maybe next well talk talk about joe biden. Speaking of the democratic race, Hillary Clinton did a cameo for saturday night lives season premier. Heres a taste of it. So, hillary, what brings you here tonight . Well, i no ed to blow off some steam. Ive had a hard couple of 22 years. [ laughter ] how about you . Me . Im just an ordinary citizen who believes the Keystone Pipeline will destroy our environment. [ laughter ] i agree with you there. It did take me a long time to decide that but i am against it. [ laughter ] you know, nothing wrong with taking your time. Whats important is getting it right. Im just so darn bummed. All anyone wants to talk about is donald trump. Donald trump . Isnt he the one thats, like, ugh, youre all losers. I have to say, amy holmes, to hear her do an impersonation it was like that was fun hillary. Sides of her we didnt know existed that she does impersonati impersonations. I give her credit for going on saturday night live trying to make herself more relatable and likable and poking fun at herself. Im surprised it was hillary and not trump that did the season premier. I would i would just wait. Lorne michaels isnt stupid. He is not stupid we shall see. Thats all for today. Dont forget to tune in to mtp daily monday through friday because if its a weekday its also meet the press. Thats at 5 00 p. M. Eastern msnbc. Well be back next week with the big show. If its sunday, its meet the if its sunday, its meet the press. Without the internet i would probably be like a c student. Internet essentials from comcast has brought lowcost high Speed Internet into the homes of hundreds of thousands of lowincome families. It lets students do homework and study at home. So far more than two Million People across america have benefitted. Internet essentials is going to transform the lives of families. I see myself as maybe an entrepreneur. Internet essentials from comcast. Helping to bridge the digital divide