Changing the way you think of retirement. Revolutionary by every standard. And that became our passion. To always build something better, airplanes that fly cleaner and farther on less fuel. That redefine comfort and connect the world like never before. After all, you cant turn dreams into airplanes unless your passion for innovation is nonstop. One final chunk of my interview with the president where we talked about the pressure of the job and how he sometimes struggles being under the relentless strcrutiny. Ive had former aides of yours, plenty of supporters of yours say he looks exhausted. Are you exhausted . I actually feel energized about the opportunities that weve got. There are days where im not getting enough sleep because weve got a lot on our plate. When youre president of the united states, youre not just dealing with the united states, as we saw during the nato summit. If theres a problem in ukraine, were the ones who are expected to mobilize the World Community to isolate russia, put pressure, support ukrainians and to vindicate the principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity and freedom that we stand for. If theres a problem in the middle east, the expectation is that we create the coalitions to deal with a problem like isil. If theres an issue in africa around ebola, we need to help mobilize that Public Health infrastructure. So you know, its not just me, its my staff also. Where our in box gets pretty high. During vacation, made the statement on foley, went and golfed. Do you want that back . You know, it is always a challenge when youre supposed to be on vacation, because youre followed everywhere. Part of what i would love is a vacation from the press i promise you in two and a half years i think that happens. The possibility of a jarring contrast given the worlds news, theres always going to be some tough news somewhere is going to be there. But theres no doubt that after having talked to the families where it was hard for me to hold back tears listening to the pain they were going through after the statement that i made, that i should have anticipated the optics. Thats part of the job. You know, i think everybody who knows me, including, i suspect, the press understands that you take this stuff in. Its serious business. You care about it deeply. But part of this job is also the theater. Part of it is how are you you hate the theater. Well, its not something that always comes naturally to me, but it matters. Im mindful of that. So the important thing is in addition to that, am i getting the policies right, am i protecting the american people, am i doing whats necessary . I think i need to prebook you for next week, i have another 35 questions. With that, mr. President , thank you very much. Great to see you. The full unedited interview is already on the website right now on meet the press. Let me start with you, the president talking optics. He does he hates that aspect of the job. He admitted it. It was sort of a very honest moment. I remember president obama in 2008 or candidate obama, he did the optics then. Good optics. He got the theater of politics. This idea that somehow he doesnt get it now, i think, he gets it. I think he probably just doesnt care at this point and hes fine with blaming the press. President s do have to compartmentalize. Thats a fact. You could never go to sleep. They do have to compartmentalize. I remember reading a column talking about first ladies saying pat nixon made a great Peanut Butter and jelly sandwiched that relaxed president richard nixon. If thats what he needs to do, she should do it. President s should be able to golf, do what they need to do. Obviously he made some mistakes. They say they dont do theater. They do theater they want to do. I was glad, it was good to hear the president say. Im not really good at it. I probably should be a little better at optics. Thats hard for him. Its important to note, i messed up the optics. Hes not saying i shouldnt have done it, hes saying, look, i deal with this all time. You guys just had a different picture. They have had this problem, particularly the last few years since the election. Its been a systemic problem for the administration where they dont quite understand these things matter to people. It does matter seeing the president serious. Leaving Something Like that and not being out laughing and joking with his friends. I think most americans get he can compartmentalize, this doesnt necessarily impact doing the job. It matters psychological. To win elections. This guy has hes been attacked for not getting optics since 2008 in many ways. Hes won by a larger margin than any other president since bush in 88. So forgive the white house for shrugging and saying whats the big deal. Just to be clear, we know the people behind him are saying, hey, dont do s it this way, way. They think about the optics all the time. At the end of the day, hes saying, you know what, im going to do what i want to do. He knows more than you do and anybody else in the public knows about all the Security Issues going around. So dont tell me i wasnt taking this seriously. I took 15 calls while i was out there. Absolutely. Stick around. Coming up, ac fun new feature. What everyone in washington coming up, ac fun new feature. What everyone in washington knows but is adventure to say or csome cool things to pass onto. Wyour kids your super heroes. Knows but is adventure to say or your fashion sense. Your love of reading. Your uncanny ability to find parking spots. Your fear of people who are different . Not so much, the more you know. I am going to be making a decision around the first of the year about whether im going to run or not. I have to be convinced that i have a very clear vision with an agenda of what i think needs to be done. You just heard it there. Hillary clinton, and it dove tails with another new feature were bringing to the show, what everyone knows but afraid to say. With that in mind, im going to make a decision, amy walter, im going to have a decision come on mexico city. What have these last few weeks been . The book tour is the campaign. As she talks about another issue, its cheer shes ready to go. January, is it too soon . When she announced before, she announced in january. January 20th. President obama announced in february. Seven opponents. Take some flack and attention away from her. But shes also going to face a situation where it looks like republicans, wont name any named, rand paul, seems to be eyeing. I guess, joe, obviously if shes making a decision in january, thats a way to freeze everybody else. Thats the decision, go early and go home. I hate to be the thick one on the panel but thats my job. Im not so sure shes going to run. Its just like with b. Im still trying to figure out if jeb is going to run. We get the information jeb is freezing everybody. We know shes freezing everybody. Its such a disastrous book tour when it should have been so easy. Why does she want to do it . Shes been struggling a long time. I think the longer she teases people, the worse it is for her. If shes going to run, shes going to have to come out and say sooner rather than later. Its ridiculous theater to watch. The public is going to say all right, guys. I have to leave it there. Well be back next week. You know why . If its sunday, its meet the press. What evidence doesnt lie, it actually tells a story. Tonight, youre there at the crime scene. You can almost recreate the crime. Right there on the wall. A mystery, scrawled in blood. Three cryptic letters. What would you make of this. Is that a word . Is that a person . The clues pointed so many Different Directions that it was a mystery. The case, the murder of a former model and Flight Attendant. When she got dolled up, oh, my god. For just. Did she write thats letters . Was this a hint to who killed her . Youve got this message saying this is my killer. Just like you would see in a movie. And the ending, that was just like a movie, too. I cant believe what people do to each other. Written in blood. Welcome to dateline, everyone. Im lester holt. R. O. C. Tonight those three little letters will tell a story all their own. But theres Something Else that youll want to pay close attention to in this case, another clue, just as crucial and easy to overlook. A pizza delivery on the night of the murder, because thats what would help deliver the killer right to the detectives front door. Heres dennis murphy. If year round sun and water is your thing, floridas west coast should be high on your check out list of places to live. It was for pretty Karen Pernell, once the one time model and Flight Attendant got sand in her shoes, she never looked back. She loved the beach, diving, boating, nightlife. I remember her jumping off the boat and going to these Little Islands and having picnics and coming back at sunset, and just so much fun. Good friend Kathryn Malay worked the counter along with karen. Exactly the right agent to bump into to get you on your way. Karen was very pretty. She was smart, smiled all the time. Funny. But when the always capable and reliable karen didnt show up for her saturday morning shift on october 11, 2003, clearly, something was wrong. Her boyfriend, tim per men ter had tried calling her at home. When she wasnt at work or answering her calls, i began to get worried. But it was a couple hours before i really got panicky about it. The boyfriend drove over to karens condo in a quiet down of oldsmore. The front door was unlocked, a bad sign. He said i stepped to the right in the kitchen and saw her body. Immediately there was no doubt in my mind she was dead. I picked up the phone and called 911. She is laying on the floor. Theres brood everywhere. Karen pernell, sprawled on her back, bloody, a murder victim in her own home. The county detective would lead the investigation. Tim permeanters in the front yard. He threw up in the front yard. He what so upset over finding his girlfriend. Deputies gave tim a chance to sclekt himself in the back seat of an air conditioned patrol car. Thats where he placed a call to karens friend kathryn with the unimaginable news. He says, kathryn, its tim, im at karens apartment, shes laying on the floor, theres blood on the floor and shes been stabbed. Its a horrible way, its really a horrible way to die. Karen, the baby of the family with five older brothers, suddenly gone. Shed been especially close to her oldest brother mike. My brother called me, i was at the airport. And said you better sit down. And he said karens been murdered. Any theories about what had happened . I dont know. I was trying to figure out the why. And relying on the police to do what they needed to do. And what they had to do was plenty. They processed the crime scene, filmed every inch of karens home, knocked on doors, tried to figure out just who their victim was. Detectives holbrook and larry nelvin began with the man who made that 911 call. The thing most detectives will do is talk to the people closest to the victim in the case. In this case, we had mr. Per men ter. He gave detectives a run down of where hed been in the hours leading up to the stashl discovery. He said hed popped up briefly the night before to drop off a gift, a photo calendar of kittens that he knew his catlover girlfriend would find irresistib irresistible. Wouldnt it have been your routine to spend the night . Not on a friday night, because she had to work the next day. She had to go in early after saying goodbye. He says he ended up spending the night with friends i know boyfriends are also suspicions, did he say i want to talk to a lawyer . No. Hes being more than cooperative. While tim says he was off with his friend, there appeared to have been a frenzied struggle at karens house. A forensic specialist assessed the aftermath. She put up a heck of a struggle. What are you looking at . She had tee fen sieve wounds, the way she was contorted. I remember thinking, she put up a heck of a struggle. Do you suck in your breath or have you seen everything at this point . Oh, i cant believe what people do to each other. And its terrible. Its terrible. Around back, cox, the crime scene tech found the security bolton a sliding glass door had been dislodged. And there were other signs of tampering. There was a cable box that was open, so you start to think to yourself, somebody trying to cut the wires. There was a knocked over birdbath. There was evidence outside that at first you need to think to yourself, i think that this might be a burglary. And karens overturned purse on the stovetop poured the breakin theory. Anna cox took an inventor eve everything at the crime scene. A pizza box, a garden glove, a grocery receipt, all routine findings so far. But its what authorities spotted next, on the wall, just above the body that would turn this case into something out of the movies. A threeletter message in blood. You didnt have to squint to make it out, either. R. O. C. On the victim, karens right hand index finger was clearly stained with blood. R. O. C. What was the murdered woman trying to tell the cops . All these theories were running through my mind. What does that mean . Is that a word . Is that a person . Is that a thing . The clues pointed so many Different Directions that it really was, it was a total mystery. Theres a concept in the law known as a dying declaration. Would those three letters scrawled in karens own blood lead to the apprehension of her killer . When we come back, investigators dig in to that threeletter mystery. Youve got this scrawled in blood message saying this is my killer. Absolutely. Who or what was r. O. C. . When written in blood continues. This is limeaway turbo power. Watch limeaway power through this block of pure limescale now, lets see it in action. Tough hard water buildup . Gone. No scrubbing turbo power destroys it limeaway turbo power. See the difference, or your money back. Bathroom is trashed. He boys in 2b threw another party. Dudes. Come in lets bubble we dont just kill 99. 9 of germs. Were also approved for tougher cleaning jobs. Thats a reason to celebrate. You really think they need one . The camera always liked Karen Pernell. She was both hard to miss and hard to forget. Just ask her boyfriend, tim permenter who was smitten right away when he met her at the vw dealership where he worked. What did you think of her . Oh, she was gorgeous. She was beautiful. You were pinching yourself. You thought you were one of the luckiest guys. Karen was the one of best women i had ever known. I thought she was a person i could settle down with. She and her brothers had been raised as military brats and moved bases a lot. Now that family was gathering from farflung parts of the country for her funeral. Shock and mourning for the sister who had long been their glue. All the boys had gotten involved in their own stuff. Then there was karen. She was really what connected all of us to the family unit. What does that tell us about her . She was a lot more important to us than we knew. I think she was always more interested in family as a whole than she was in herself. Brother mike wasnt alone in thinking his kid sister could have been a skys the limit person. She could have been anything she wanted. A scientist or doctor or whatever. She was just really nimble minded. Her friends loved her. Yeah, she was hard not to love. Even harder to forget what a cruel fate shed suffered at the hands of a killer unknown. During the viewing, there were visible stab wounds on her hand. You know, so we kind of pulled flowers down a little further. A few days after the murder, her many friends at the airport said their goodbyes. Theres a chapel in the main terminal at the airport. There were so many people there from all different airlines. The security people. It was incredible. Meanwhile, the pin el as county Sheriffs Department was moving quickly on several fronts. First they validated boyfriend, tims story. He said after visiting karen he spent the evening with a friend in moon lake about an hour to the north. He did go up to where george was staying with his girlfriend. This was confirmed with interviews with george as well as his girlfriend. George gave us a timeline that was consistent with what permenter gave us. Tims story about the night of the murder checked out. He voluntarily came clean about something. He had a record. Hed done time. Early on in your life, tim, you get involved in trouble. What was going on with you. I was running an escort service. And got stupid. Started it up small, basically running an ad out of a newspaper. Getting a small office. And it just expanded from there. It ballooned. What kind of money were you making. I was grossing about 6,000 to 7,000 a day. A day . And youre how old . At that time, 20. And thats the trap. Why am i even going to school when im making this kind of money. Why go straight, huh . Yes, sir. And it ended up in a gunfight . Yes, sir. He was worried hed be painted as a bad guy right away because of his sordid past. He promised to cooperate in every possible way. I allowed them to photograph me, removed all my clothing. Allowed them to go to my home, take anything they wanted. There was nothing about him, his car, his person, that led us to believe that he wasnt involved in any other way than he said he was that he came and found her and was devastated. Tim permenters alibi checked out, and police dismissed any clues pointing to a home invasion. After all, karen had been stabbed 16 times, an attack so ferocious, it could only be an attack of passion. Now they were trying to figure out what the biggest clue of all meant, the letters written in blood, r. O. C. This is a pretty creepy scene. Youve got this scrawled in blood message, saying this is my killer. Im now dead, but you find this guy. Thats whats suggesting right . Absolutely. Detectives soon discovered how those letters on the wall, r. O. C. , were connected to the victim lying beneath them. Rock, it turned out, was a person, the name of a man who had spelled trouble in the past. Rock was an exboyfriend who Karen Pernell had had problems with previously. And wherever this rock was, hed just become the prime suspect into the investigation of her murder. Okay. There it is. Thats what she meant to write, was rock. And then they have to follow that lied and off they go. To find rock. To find rock. Coming up. Mission accomplished. Find him, they do. What do you think she saw in you . The bad boy kind of thing. Im loo a stomachchurning crime with a, at first glance, cryptic message written in blood, r. O. C. , but it wasnt a big mystery for long. R. O. C was the unusual but proper spelling of karens exboyfriend. Tell me about the former boyfriend, roc. Who was he . He was an exboyfriend. Hed had a little bit of legal problems. Little bit of Substance Abuse problem. Roc had a personality as big and as loud as the pipes on the harleys he loved to cruise. He worked at an auto body shop handling insurance claims. When he met roc, she was on a downward spiral. Shed recently got and divorce and a doctor had given her awful news. She had multiple sclerosis, 38 years old. What do you think that did to her . I think that really affected her selfesteem. I think it may have had an impact on the type of men that she was attracted to. Karen came to rely on roc to take her to doctors appointments and give her injections. But when she took the step of asking him to move in her family and friends thought she was asking for trouble. Is it my place to say, well, you need to go find somebody that is going to offer you a Better Future . You cant dictate terms to your kid sister. No. You can only fix yourself. And, as it turned out, roc wasnt a fix for karen either. The relationship soon took an ugly turn. They seemed to get along for a while, and she was happy. And he turned into not a very nice guy. He was a little creepy. There were some unexplained bruises, and i used to tell her, you know, what are you doing . He did not deserve her. Shy wouldnt listen. He fights got worse and police were called three separate times to intervene. One time roc allegedly broke down the front door. That was the last straw. Karen filed a domestic battery complaint and roc moved out. Tim permenter says that even a year later roc was still harassing karen about a roll top desk hed left behind. She was starting toet scared of him toward the end. Issue he had was i have a valuable piece of furniture i want it back. Right, but karen said that was a ruse. Trying to worm his way back in . Thats the way she portrayed it to me. The dents knew they had to confront this roc, so they tracked him down and paid him a surprise visit. He wasnt happy to see them. Im in my home in the garage in north port, florida. Black unmarked shows up. Everybody knows what that is. Im thinking, what the heck is that. Detective holbrook identified himself and said they needed to talk about his friend karen. They sat done on the porch and said shes dead. This doesnt register. I said you need to telle relationship withroc indicate drugs and that karen liked to drink and tha savered the good times too. When she got dolled up, oh, my god, gorgeous. Wasnt anything out of place. Were there sparks, something going on . She was all by herself, and she was ready to go. She looked hungry for attention. And she was alone. And it was perfect. It was a perfect set up. What do you think she saw in you . Probably the bad boy kind of thing. I want your conventional straitlaced kind of guy. Roc was straight with officials and admitted there were a few riproaring fights but said she was the instigator. Shed get vie lint, physically violent. Just stuff. Things would happen. But nobody ever got arrested, but theyd come out, and they would address the as roc tells it, she gave as good as he got, that he dodged a few coming up on early today a wide ranging and revealing exclusive interview. Why president obama is delaying action on immigration and his isis threat strategy. The next phase is now to start going on some offense. But this is not going to be an announcement about u. S. Ground troops, number one. Whats ahead for the nation. A fastmoving respiratory illness is affecting thousands of children in geographic clusters in the midwest. And flooding for the midatlantic states. What will your pay raise look like next year . And hollywood with laughter and tears for joan rivers. And week one for the nfl