Yes or no . Well, you know, monica, i was a College Student during the rizzo years, and i think, you know, i always thought it interesting that he was one of the few mayors, if not the only mayor, that has such a prominent statue, just given how divisive he was. Whether you come down on him being the greatest mayor in the history of the city or the worst, usually someone that divisive you dont give such a prominent position. And, in fact, maybe the only one dilworth has his plaza full disclosure member of that law firm. But no statue. And probably a more transformative mayor than frank rizzo. So, yeah. I think mayor kenney has this right. I think the Arts Commission needs to make a decision, and i expect that that statue will be moved. Well, nia, is this a reminder to people of the very violent chapter in philadelphia history that he was at the forefront of . He may not have known about every instance of violence, but he certainly was at the forefront, of being a police commissioner, and allowed violent acts to occur, mostly against minorities. So is it a dark reminder that people think we should just move on past . You know, its interesting because when we think about public statues, were really thinking about lionizing someone and all their values and saying this is someone we look up to, we aspire. We dont always look at them for their flaws. And to jims point, there arent too many other statues of mayors. We have schools, we have plazas, but we dont have statues. And even the formation of this statue and its erection came at a really emotional time, not too long after rizzos passing. I would think that the mayor and the Historical Commission will give due deference to a lot of thoughts and opinions on this. Yes, there are references to a period of time where, if you are a person of color, particularly a young man of color, you were always a suspect. But theres also a time of people that said, hey, there was law and order, and, you know, the communities were safe and blah, blah, blah. When you get down to the type of divisiveness that this singular figure poses, it doesnt portend for unity for the city of philadelphia. If you said, lets move the statue to south philadelphia, if you said, lets move the statue toward a museum, or something along those lines, that makes sense just because how you balance that out with all of our historical precedent when we think about mayors. We dont see a mayor in waiting for rendell, for street, for mcmichael, or any of these other past mayors. So, thats a question. And i think nows a good time to have the conversation, if its rational. I mean, can we get to a point where we just accept human beings are flawed, nobodys gonna be perfect, and if youre gonna have any statue, you could probably find something wrong with some of them . Well, i think thats that slipperyslope argument. I think there is no question that frank rizzo was a divisive, controversial character. But i also think that moving a statue, or tearing it down, is not gonna help as mayor kenney says, its not gonna help the life of one person in philadelphia. And im tired of arguments over symbolisms. Im more interested in practical ways that we make peoples lives better. We cant have both . Well, i think look, the smart way to handle this, i think, in any of these instances, is, first of all, to not morally equivocate. Frank rizzo was not philadelphias robert e. Lee. Thats number one. Number two is, if you answer offensive speech with your own speech. So, theres a plan for next month to have a statue erected at city hall of octavius catto, a tremendous civilrights icon in philadelphia. Put that statue next to rizzos, and there you have debate. How is this different than the debate down south, though, ed . Because a lot of people would say, look, in a climate like we have, with the new president , sometimes people do go to a statue and have, you know, a protest. And it is a rallying point for good or for bad. Oh, i dont know. If youre going to lionize figures who waged war against the United States and engaged in treason, i dont think you can compare them with frank rizzo. I think thats larrys point. So, if we take a step back, i think and i think were all saying the same thing the whole notion of how we treat Public Places is now going to get a very vigorous discussion, and it ought to have one. Because its a representation when you have a statue in a public place, it speaks to the ethos of the world view of the community at large. And over time, that changes. So i think you have to first of all have a reason process by which it happens. It cant be the mob. It cant have the mobs veto. And i think larrys spoton to say the best way to deal with speech you dont like is to have more speech. So to take rizzos statue and i mean, we can have very different views on rizzo, but then to put a catto statue right next to him, or some other figure next to him, its an appropriate thing. Ill predict this much were gonna be much more careful about whose statue gets placed where only because of the polarized notion of our politics right now. As well we should. And then lets think about the costs. I mean, were talking about public dollars. It costs money to maintain statues all around the city or what have you. And so when were thinking about these figures, it makes sense if were thinking way back in historical terms of someone that says, these are their clear contributions, but when were even thinking more modern times, thats a harder view and a harder sell to make. So, to your point, i think it works if we are able to institute conversation, a dialogue. But the biggest point of the day we have far more important issues that are going on when it comes to divisiveness, when it comes to equality issues, when it comes to violence issues. And, yes, theres symbolism behind this. No, rizzo is not robert e. Lee. He was not someone who petitioned for treason. He was not someone who petitioned for an institution of forced raped and other aspects of slavery. Thats understood. However, when we think about all of this, it is a good point of conversation and history. I mean, we should have some historical markers, we should have some additional conversation points. That should be built in. Because theres a lot of people that come to philadelphia, a lot of young folks, who dont even understand what this whole hooha is about. And theyre just sort of jumping into these sides and this fray, or, oh, no, we should keep it or no, we should tear it down, and not even understanding why. Many of the people who had the most amount of issues with rizzo are no longer even here. You know, those people who were affected are graying and aging. And not to say that theyre hurt doesnt matter anymore, but the fact is, we have taken this conversation up to here without even bringing the appropriate context to the conversation. All right. And lets talk about widening it out a little bit. Because back in 2011, a candidate, an independent candidate for mayor, actually spraypainted the words black power on the rizzo statue. That takes us over to coatesville and valley township, where antisemitic and racist comments were sprayed. A suspect has been arrested. But clearly, racism is a problem throughout our country. And how do we get past it when there are some people who just may not even need a reminder like a statue, but just have attitudes of hate . Is it engendered and fostered by the Political Climate were in now . Well, one thing i think you can do is prosecute hate crimes. I started my career as a prosecutor at the Justice Department doing that. I think people who do acts like that deface cemeteries, burn crosses, commit violence. Spraypaint cars. An africanamerican woman had just moved her family there. Thats not free speech. Thats not First Amendment covered. Thats hate speech. And they need to know that its not gonna be tolerated and theyll be prosecuted. Thats one good way to start, i think. And of course, everything that flows from that, which is education dont raise your children to hate other people. Thatd be a good start. Not have the president speak kindly about white nationalists and nazis. Thatd be another good start. What did you make of the comments, that fluctuated within one weeks time, ed, from the president where he says it was just, you know, not spin was his word, but take he was saying Different Things just in a little bit different context, he said about charlottesville. What did you make of what he said last week . Well, i think the main transgression, in terms of all of the words that have been spoken on his part, was when he said that at the rallies in charlottesville, you had people of goodwill and conscience on both sides. Look, i think there is an argument to be made about not whitewashing, or clearing away, the markers that Southern States have on a complex issues. When it comes to the whole question of whether you call it the civil war or the war of northern aggression, which is what they call it, theres a difference of opinion. But no one of goodwill marches with the klan or with neonazis. If he had said that much, and i really look, hes a is it a lack of knowledge of American History . No, i think its a very in i think hes very inartful in his speech. I think he tends to be very bombastic, and he uses broad brushstrokes. So, hell talk about people who rightly say that theres a double standard when it comes to this issue. But he winds up lumping them in with a crowd that he ought to have no contact with. Nothing to do with. And actually does say, im against david duke, im against the nazis, im against the klan, but the problem is, were paying attention because youre the president. And if you speak inartfully, people are gonna draw conclusions. Larrys gonna chime in here. I was with you until the argument that its inartful speech. I think, if you go this wasnt isolated, right . If you go back to the campaign, donald trump has unleashed a sense of anger and indecency in the culture. And i think its more than just inartful speech. I think he has proven to be and this is not ideological but proven to be morally unfit to lead. When we look to our president to strike to appeal to the better angels of our nature, he comes up short every time. Mmhmm. And do you think that people should give him allegiance and give him a little pass because hes new in the office, hell grow in the office, make it like a countryandflag loyalty, patriotism . No . Its too late . When you talk about nazism, and, i mean my grandfather fought in world war ii, okay . He fought against nazis. And he still had to come home and deal with racism. He had to deal with racism in the navy. But the fact of the matter is, we fought against nazis. We fought against people who had an ideology that was so foul that it had nothing to do with American Values. You cannot be the president of the United States and not, first and foremost, reassure us that American Values trump everything when i comes to the situation. First and foremost. Meantime, one other point there is a Pennsylvania Senate bill thats at least being written, number 754, that would make protestors who protest things like these topics pay for the cost, if they get arrested, of police protection. If there is a large enough crowd and they are needed, if police are called upon to organize, or at least to keep the streets moving when there is a large demonstration like the one youre seeing right here. So, 50,000 people, by the way, gathered for the womens march, back during the inaugural time, in january. 2,000 went for another march. 5,000 for a march against the immigration executive order by president trump. These things cost money, when we have police overtime, and, you know, Streets Department issues as well. Should they have to pay . Theres a difference between peaceful protest and protest that results in violence. Theres a difference between a protest that has a permit and complies with the rules and ones that do not. And the ones that do not comply with those rules can be fined. But i think to go beyond that does have a Chilling Effect on free speech. And just one quick comment on this nazi thing. As a distant relative of dwight eisenhower, i saw a great thing on facebook last week, and it said, the first protest against nazis, and it was the dday landing. How about that . I mean, when you think about this law, its dubious in its nature because it still leaves too much leeway. I mean, how do you decide a misdemeanor . I mean, a misdemeanor, it could be anything. And, i mean, regardless of what side or whats being protested, i think we do have enough laws on the books when it comes to if someone acts up, they get arrested. But then to say arrest and then youre gonna be fined . I mean, how do you define that . But how do cities pay for all this extra police well, and lets also were taking a pretty hard brick back to donald trump, and he deserves some of it. Not all of it. Because every once in a while, ill see someone say, there were protests against donald trump tonight, and what i see on television is a riot. Antifa at the inauguration was burning cars, throwing gasoline bombs into stores, breaking windows. Thats not a protest. That is a riot. And this Antifa Movement hes got a point here about what they have been doing. And in large part, theyve been beating up on his supporters at his rallies. And when the storys told, it was a counterprotest. Thats not a counterprotest. All right, lets hear from larry. I do think i think youre making the point i made earlier. I think hate or indecency or whatever you want to call it breeds hate or indecency. And i keep coming back to what i think his rhetoric has unleashed cumulatively. And then the other thing to your question, monica, about do you give them a pass on this . I think nias right. You cant give them a pass on moral leadership. I give him a pass on working with congress. Maybe hell i doubt it but maybe hell learn how to not beat up Mitch Mcconnell because he wants to get his agenda passed. Maybe hell learn. But not on moral leadership. Thats thats thats the thats a given. All right. Were gonna take a break. Inside story continues right after this. Inside story is presented by temple university. Remarkable change isnt easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. Explore temples impact. Visit temple. Edu impact. Welcome back to inside story. A jury has now been picked in the corruption trial of new jersey senator bob menendez. An interesting quandary, if you will, in this case because his side, menendez attorney, asked the judge to either delay the trial or allow them occasional days off, if you will, for senator menendez to go down to washington and vote on legislation, because obviously in this climate, every vote is needed on some issues. The judge declined on both those requests. So the trial will go forward. And either senator menendez wont be there a few days for his own trial so he can make these votes or he will be there and miss the votes. The point is, number one, the trial itself corruption alleges that he took bribes and got favored paytoplay type treatment. So thats an interesting case in and of itself. But the climate of washington, d. C. , needing every vote, no matter if youre on trial or not. What do you make of it . Larry . Ive been concerned. And look, ive railed about corruption in politics. But it does seem to me that lately, theres a trend of criminalizing politics. The the case with virginia, the governor of virginia, where the Supreme Court had to overturn a conviction, and the sort of dealmaking of politics is becoming criminal. Id be interested in what jim says about this, because it feels like that there is a trend among overzealous prosecutors to just prosecute but its not new because tom delay, ted stevens suffered very similar fates. Hmm. Thats interesting. So, you dont believe on the face of it i mean, certainly were not in the courtroom. It doesnt sound like its such a big deal . It sounded to me what ive read about it, it looks really icky and it looks like the typical dealmaking and sausagemaking of politics. I didnt see anything in what ive read that leads to the quid pro quo. Right. Illegality. Well, the Supreme Court has made it very difficult for prosecutors, federal prosecutors, to bring these kinds of corruption cases. The last couple opinions, including the mcdonnell opinion, the Virginia Governor you referenced, blew out that conviction with some facts that were pretty bad. It made the governor look pretty bad, but the Supreme Court said, but not criminal. And weve seen some backlash in some of these cases. Senator farnese, tried last year here in our district, acquitted by a jury in a case that seemed to a lot of us to be marginal. And the point is, there has to be an official act, an act of the office. Quid pro quo. As opposed to a favor. A smoking gun of sorts. But, you know, the other thing is, when were talking about public officials, they have a responsibility to their constituents. In this case, his constituents may well be harmed if he cannot be in two places at one time. And clearly, he cannot be. The other aspect is that you do harm to your own caucus. Regardless of what party youre in, your responsibility, your comportment as an elected official is such that you shouldnt have to have a guideline to say, okay, you can do this, but dont do. But if thats whats needed, then perhaps our caucus leaders need to issue that for everyone. Yeah, lets keep in mind article 1 section 5 of the constitution. Each house gets to make its own rules. Mmhmm. What if, and were not saying that he will or should be convicted, but what if hes convicted . It takes 2 3 of the senate. Mmhmm. To kick out a member. The democrats are in a position do we vote to kick him out knowing that chris christie, a republican, will appoint his replacement . Sure. And that could start to tip the balance in congress, right. And to your point, monica, about you need every vote . Dont forget, john mccain is going through a very Serious Health challenge. Indeed. What may happen is they may try to work out deals, and mccain would probably go for this, where he absents himself on days when menendez is not there. And offset that. Mccains a guy who might go for that. But an interesting point about how the outcome of the trial, whatever it is, will impact, possibly, the balance of power in washington, d. C. And now we have a republican governor who will be replaced at some point, in november of in theory and could be replaced by a democrat whos leading in many of the polls. So, it could very well. The democrats will pray that the trial would go out until january, if thats the case. These trials can be very sticky, with federal officials. Theres a part of the constitution called the speech and debate clause. And it precludes the government from prosecuting an elected official for things said during speech and debate in other words, their official actions. The lawyer for senator menendez is an excellent lawyer. And hes already appealed twice on that before the trial has even started on those grounds to have the case thrown out. And then once you get into the trial, youve got all kinds of sticky problems for the government. So, conviction here is by no means preordained. And its gonna be a tough battle for the government i think to win the case. All right. Before we wrap up, lets talk quickly about the soda tax update. Many folks say that in fact the money raised has done exactly what the city had hoped. Not quite the exactly number, but very close. They have been able to get 40 million so far and set up several preschool and kindergarten classrooms that were not there. You can take an argument on either side. Some people say, look, the very people that should be drinking less soda and arent buying it in the philadelphia area run into the suburbs and theyre getting the benefit, if you will, of the taxes. Others would say, look, these classrooms arent so perfect. Theyve got a few little issues going, some paperwork and some clientele problems, if you will, that the mayors having to put a stop to. So, is it a perfect system, or are you happy with the outcome . No, i think its been a mess. And kudos to channel 6s investigative team. Chad pradelli had a brilliant investigative report about how a quarter of the new prek classrooms havent filed their fbi or state childabuse protection forms. And the mayor sloughed it off as just paperwork, but not if youre the parents of those kids. And four of them owe back taxes. So this gets to the issue of just competence, governmental competence. And i think theyve got a lot of work to do. And its not a soda tax, its a beverage tax. Right. Well leave it at that. Inside stories coming your way right after this. Inside story is presented by temple university. Remarkable change isnt easy, but for those who take charge, it comes naturally. Explore temples impact. Visit temple. Edu impact. Time for inside stories of the week. And lets start with jim. Monica, insiders are talking about last weeks crash at the 69th street terminal in upper darby. Over 40 people injured. And its not the first time thats happened. Theres been another crash within the last year. Congressman brady and others are really pushing hard for the ntsb to start moving on this, issue a report, and get the situation fixed. All right. Ed. Monica, following up on that. Weve had four major mishaps with u. S. Navy ships in the pacific and a number of near misses in the baltic, and now they suspect that the russians may be hacking into the Navigation Systems of those ships. If they can hack into a naval vessel, they can get into a plane, a train, or those pilotless cars that theyre talking about. This is a major issue. Mm. Nia. Another possible mishap on the horizon right now is with the u. S. Census bureau. This is the time, were moving into 2018, that we should be having a lot of test runs and other things happening. Due to budget constriction and whatnot, were not gonna have three test runs, but only one. And that means a lot of changes when it comes to possible monies coming to cities like philadelphia and elsewhere. The census is a critical situation, and its dire right now. We have to get on top of it. All right. Larry. Monica, i hung out last week with the irrepressible charles barkley, who next week will unveil his wine, cb wine, in partnership with a palo alto winery. Its very good. All the proceeds go to charity. He gives away 1 million a year, underwriting minority scholarships. And i said to him, like, who knew you were so cultured and such a sophisticated guy . And he didnt answer, cause he was busy drinking. Okay, well, there you go. All right, thats inside story for this week. Thanks to our insiders for being here. We appreciate that. And thanks so much to you for watching. Have a great week, and well see you right back here next sunday morning. Im gray hall coming up next only action news, rescue efforts are underway as Tropical Storm harvey continues to washout parts of texas. A ambulance on its way to the hospital in west philadelphia, ended up with a bullet hole. 60mile journey to raise money for Breast Cancer research is about to come to an end at the navy yard. The details on the 3 day walk. Those stories and the exclusive accuweather sevenday forecast and much more next on action news. It is sunday august 27 im gray hall. Nydia han has the day off. Heres a look at the stories were working on on action news, Southeast Texas is underwater as Tropical Storm