Transcripts for WNPR 90.5 FM/WEDW 88.5 FM/WPKT 89.1 FM/WRLI 91.3 FM [Connecticut Public Radio] WNPR 90.5 FM/WEDW 88.5 FM/WPKT 89.1 FM/WRLI 91.3 FM [Connecticut Public Radio] 20201209 170000

From w.h.y. Why in Philadelphia grows with. Some of the harsh sentencing laws that were passed as part of the war on drugs has since been changed but not all those changes are retroactive that's left many people serving life sentences for nonviolent drug offenses because of laws now considered unfair or unconstitutional those are the people who become the clients of today's guest Brittany Barnett she is a lawyer responsible for getting dozens of people out of prison she won 7 clemencies from President Obama and 2 from President. Started doing this work because her mother was addicted to crack and went to jail and later did 2 and a half years in Texas prisons that were far from their home in East Texas Burnette founded a group to take girls to see their mothers and to mentor those girls. First . Life from n.p.r. News I'm Lakshmi saying more than a month since Joe Biden won the election a new poll finds many Americans still won't accept it here's N.P.R.'s. In a new n.p.r. P.b.s. News Hour merest survey 61 percent of Americans overall say they trust the results of the 2020 Alexion more accurate that includes almost all who identify as Democrats and 2 thirds of independents but only a quarter of Republicans agree they appear to be taking their lead from President Trump who has been unable to say he lost key states have already certified their results and terms legal team has lost repeatedly in court while basal slee alleging widespread voter fraud 2 thirds in the survey also say they think Trump should formally concede the manic amounts in our n.p.r. News Washington federal authorities are now helping investigate the shooting death of a black 23 year old Columbus resident w o s used page Flager has the latest k.c. Goodson Jr was shot multiple times in the torso by sheriff's deputy Jason Meade Friday as Goodson was entering his home that's according to an autopsy report released Wednesday the sheriff's department and Goodson's family have differing accounts of the shooting and Meade was not wearing a body camera the f.b.i. The Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice and Columbus police are all investigating the case the d.o.j. Is involvement comes the day after the state's Bureau of Criminal Investigation declined to take over the investigation saying Columbus police waited too long to involve them Goodson's preliminary autopsy was ruled a homicide However it did not reveal it Goodson was shot in the back as his family claims for n.p.r. News I'm Paige Flager in Columbus the u.s. House is set to vote today on a stopgap funding bill that keeps government funded an extra week and buys lawmakers a little more time to negotiate new coronavirus relief while keeping the government open under consideration is a bipartisan $980000000000.00 aid package has bigger Nancy Pelosi says it would be a starting point for approving more relief for Americans after Joe Biden takes office in January like the u.s. Germany's imploring citizens to avoid large gatherings N.P.R.'s Rob Schmitz on chancer on. Americal zx latest remarks as Germany recorded 590 deaths over the past 24 hours Merkel spoke to parliament making a passionate plea for German system of gathering at the many seasonal groove on in Waffle stands that have popped up recently and to stay at home she said the older generation is depending on it if it was not and then the it's not enough to feel it but if we don't reduce the number of people we come into contact with before Christmas she said and then this becomes our last Christmas with the grandparents then we will have missed something Chelsea express support for her scientific advisors latest assessment that a strict lockdown until the 10th of January at the earliest is necessary including keeping schools shut until that option it's n.p.r. News Berlin. You're listening to n.p.r. News support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include Subaru with their annual share the love event now through January 4th Subaru and participating retailers have donated more than 200000000 dollars to help those in need more at Subaru dot com slash share Good afternoon a matter wire with these headlines with the old trash to energy plant that serves much of central Connecticut scheduled to close in 2022 many towns in the state could soon be looking for ways to reduce the amount of garbage they create each year Connecticut throws out about half a 1000000 tons of food but only one facility that reuses food waste is operating in the state an anaerobic digester and something to takes in food waste and turns it into compost and bio gas to be burned to generate electricity plans for 3 other food recycling operations in Connecticut are either on hold or have fallen apart State Department of Energy and Environmental Protection Commissioner Katie Dykes tells Connecticut Public Radio that a state law requiring certain large companies to recycle food waste needs a kickstart Webster Bank plans to close 27 of its branches in the spring the Waterbury Republican American reports that the bank has been eliminated in branches in recent years the company did not say which locations will close the Waterbury based bank says its customers are increasingly using online banking Webster indicated that the branches that are shutting down will have their services folded into other nearby locations This is Connecticut Public Radio I met the wire. I'm meteorologist Karen r.g.s. And it's another chilly December afternoon for temperatures in the thirty's tour around 40 and also look for some scattered snow and rain showers there is the chance that the snow will cover the ground in some spots especially in the higher elevations tonight will be partly cloudy and not as cold as last night lows will be in the low thirty's and tomorrow's going to be a warmer day with temperatures in the forty's with the Connecticut Public Radio weather report I'm meteorologist Garrett r.g.s. Tis the season for stories about food you may get your name your face in the picture of the potato in the paper have you ever heard of the German Christmas pickle and I'm like No and as soon as it touches my palate you see The Exorcist I assume right I'm Kyle and welfare some of my favorite performances for my storytelling show the mouth off at the Mark Twain House that's on the next day since listen tonight a lot of the. This is Fresh Air I'm Terry Gross another step in the retreat from the war on drugs was taken Friday when the House of Representatives voted to decriminalize marijuana and expunge federal marijuana convictions dating back to 1901 the bill is considered unlikely to pass the Senate my guest Brittany Barnett is a lawyer who has been fighting for people serving life sentences without parole or other harsh sentences because of the mandatory minimum sentences legislated as part of the war on drugs her clients were convicted of nonviolent drug crimes on flimsy evidence and given sentences that have since been deemed unfair and unconstitutional she secured freedom for dozens of men and women who were sentenced to life she got involved with this work because her mother who became addicted to crack was sent to jail when Barnett was in one thread and then later served 2 years in the Texas state prison system when Barnett was in her early twenty's 7 of Brittany Barnett's clients were granted clemency by President Obama and 2 by President Trump She also founded the programs buried alive which works to free people left in prison under outdated Reagan era laws and girls and bracing mothers which brings girls to prison to visit their incarcerated mothers and helps mentor those girls Barnett has written a new memoir titled a knock at midnight it's about her work and about her early life growing up in East Texas where many people she knew were sent to prison. Brittany Burnett welcome to Fresh Air and congratulations on your book your 1st client wish to Jones and you found her when you were a law student you were writing a paper and wanted to make your case about people serving these mandatory minimum life sentences so you googled when you Google a woman and prison life sentence here I google one of many. Lives. And she's the one who came up and she's one of the people that you got clemency for she's out she's free it was a very very long process started when you were a law student. So explain the charges that she was serving a life sentence for sure Rhonda Jones was said to spend the rest of her natural life in prison for her 1st ever conviction fail in the or otherwise for federal drug conspiracy and to Rhonda Jones responsibility she participated in a federal drug conspiracy by way of being what she was sort of call a drug mule she transported drugs on a handful of occasions for 2 drug dealers. And Sharana Jones being naive to this massive beast of the criminal legal system that we have she opted to utilize their constitutional right to go to trial and when she did those 2 drug suppliers that she was transporting the drugs for testified against her at a trial and received a lesser says in exchange for their testimony. Rhonda Jones was accused of transporting powder cocaine. The coconspirators who testified against her vouch that it was powder cocaine However the judge found that she Rhonda Jones knew or should have known that the powder cocaine was going to be brought up as a college into crack. And enhance her Senate under these harsher crack cocaine penalties in for people listening who may not understand this 100 to one ratio it means that Terry you could have 500 grams of powder cocaine I could have only 5 grams of crack Ok And you and I would receive the same sentence in prison and this harsh $100.00 to $1.00. Disparity came into play in 1986 and the anti drug abuse act and it created this hugely disproportionate sentencing and that led to even today over 80 percent of the people in federal prison for drug offenses are black and brown people and so this law had this gracefully by impact that devastated lives in entire communities. She was told by her lawyer that she had a great case and there was basically no way she was going to jail so she was misled about that not intentionally misled but still misled had she not gone to trial do you think she would have given. A lesser sentence like if she if she copped a plea. I do have to live Shawna Jones had accepted a plea deal there's no way she would have received a life sentence and this case to Rhonda Jones's trial lawyer had never try a federal drug case before and what many people don't understand is this wide reaching net of federal drug conspiracy laws and these laws simply in Maine that 2 or more people come to an agreement to traffic drugs and into Rhonda's case for example there was no physical evidence whatsoever that your honor Jones was involved in this drug conspiracy there was no control there was no surveillance there were no large sums of cash no drugs even found. But in the federal court system all you need is the testimony of coconspirators and you're held a cannibal for what we call ghost dope in the federal system and that goes dope is dope that's never been you know it's dope that only exists based on the testimony of coconspirators and that's the most unfortunate part about the entire process because the more drugs you're held accountable for the more excessive your penalty . Sure the Jones mother was in prison charged with the same conspiracy on what grounds her mother was paraplegic. It's mind blowing her mother was sent to prison for the same charge as she wanted Jones essentially I feel her mother was sent to prison because she refused to give any information on her kids or cooperate Sharana Johns entire family was swept up in this large drug conspiracy and her mother as you mentioned was paralyzed from the neck down. And was 17 years in federal prison in fad 12 of those years she served in the same prison Jones. You managed to get clemency for her from President Obama tell us a little bit about what the clemency process as like what do you have to do basically have to apply for it. Yeah so clemency to me is where justice means Marzi and as I was working on this case. I kept trying to find these avenues to get a free and just had to be real with massive Terry that there is absolutely no way I can get your honor freed through the court. And that's when I learned about clemency and President Barack Obama was in office at the time. In the way I approach my clemency cases is to. Show the heartbeat I wanted to show the woman behind the prisoner number that she had been assigned I wanted to show. Who she was as a person a truly center the human element and so I prepared a clemency petition for her and I applied for clemency for sure Rhonda Jones in November of 2013. In the normal clemency process you apply with the Office of the pardon attorney if they recommend a favorable. Clemency recommendation it goes to the Department of Justice and it goes through several levels of review within the Department of Justice 5 or 6 if they recommend a favorable. Clemency petition then it goes the White House counsel and ultimately lands on the president's desk how do you get the notification that your clemency request has been approved you get notify by a car from an attorney in the office of the pardon attorney's office and what was it like when you got the call about your own to John's. It is a day in time I will never for a good you don't get a heads up for this car and at the time surrounded Jones's clemency petition had been pending for 2 years 2 years of ups and downs. She going to get it have only been working this hard in supporting her to get our hopes up am I going to let her day. In God to the point. Of 2018 where it was the we before President Obama. Made his annual family trip for the holidays to Hawaii and we were all hopeful that President Obama would grant around of clemency for the holidays we had hoped for the holidays and Monday of that week to say when. There is a pastor no clemencies and that Friday I was driving. Around writing Ariens with my mama we are preparing for a Christmas program for girls with their cars or a mother's 3 girls embracing mothers and around noon that day I got a call and it was the number for. Washington d.c. . And that was the day it was an attorney from the office of the pardon attorney's office. And she was calling to let me know there President Obama Obama had granted executive clemency to Jones. And. I still get emotional thinking about that day because that minute. There with the shock of his Ph President Obama has saved her life. How many years had she been in prison. Sharana had been in prison for 16 years and now. We receive the news that she was. Going to be a mediately released. And then you called her what was her reaction. She had no idea what the call was about. Was when you're in prison and you get a unexpected call where you have to go to your counselors office for the car. And many times people in prison are bracing themselves for bad news because those are usually caused about a death in the family or something tragic happening to your family and so I could tell when she got on the phone she was a tad bit nervous because she wasn't sure what to expect and I couldn't hold it Terry I disagree your go I know. And she began to cry we both began to cry she just kept saying thank you thank you thank you and her daughter was expecting to give birth a few months later you know when she had been worried her daughter had been worried of how. She was going to handle being a 1st time mom you know without her body there is your Vonage is kept whispering I get to be home for the baby I get to be home for the baby. And his mother died in prison of a staph infection after surgery and she was devastated after that so her mother was not alive to know that she. Received clemency. She was not her mother was not around you know Sharod in her mother's. 12 years together in prison cars will Medical Center in Fort Worth Texas. To be incarcerated with your mother is one thing right I can't imagine being in prison with my mom and 1st hour long. In Toronto is there with a life sentence. Is really helping to give her hope and helping to push her forward to be so positive is one of the. Years but to her mama in. It was definitely. An extremely heartbreaking and challenging time for sure Rhonda when her mother passed away in 2012 what assurance are doing now. Survive and of course is prayed enjoy to everyone she encounters she is a soulful. And her smile will brighten any row and is always had a passion for cooking. She owned her own restaurant before she went to prison and her dream had always been a Bond her release from prison to have a food truck where she would be able to hire formerly incarcerated people to work and to serve good food. And. I'm so happy to say that she. Her food she's in the process of designing. And. Planning to launch in the 1st quarter of 2021 in her food will be Card fed up play. The battle a federal system in a play on does me better with this is the but you will surely have year. Barely fit. Let me reintroduce you here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is Britney Barnett her new memoir is called a knock at midnight we'll be right back after this break this is Fresh Air. Also immigrating to the United States. We'll talk with the stars of the. Next time. This is Fresh Air If you're just joining us my guest is Brittany Barnett a lawyer who has been fighting for people serving life sentences without parole or other harsh sentences because of the mandatory minimum sentences legislated as part of the war on drugs her clients were convicted of nonviolent crimes on flimsy evidence and given sentences that have since been deemed unfair and unconstitutional she's responsible for the release of dozens of people. You know we were talking about Shonda Jones and how she was given clemency by President Obama who had a whole clemency and mission for people sentenced under mandatory minimums who wouldn't have gotten the sentences today President Trump also granted clemency to 2 of your clients one of them was Alice Johnson who you became aware of because she was a good friend of the Jones in prison and when she got said you got a free Alice Johnson So you took on her case. The way it got to President Trump was through. West who took the case to President Trump by contacting Trump 1st. I'm sure you're so grateful to Kim Kardashian West and President Trump but I'm just wondering if you're ambivalent about the power of celebrity being able to get clemency for someone when somebody else who is also in a similar situation wouldn't have that opportunity because there's no celebrity who went to bat for them and you have clients in that position yes I do not think it should take a celebrity to be able to help free someone from prison there is a huge problem this country is facing right now with this crisis of mass incarceration and it should not take celebrity involvement to pick those locks to human cages you know I'm grateful card actually and was used our platform I think she was able to help Shana light and raise awareness but I also am hopeful that people aren't getting so blinded by the spotlight of celebrity that they are missing the importance of looking past that spotlight in seeing the hundreds of thousands of people like Alice Johnson who are just as deserving of their freedom yet I should mention you were on a panel Africa with a group was called but it was a panel like reviewing cases. The cases that you take on people who were sentenced during the mandatory minimum era and are still in prison even though the sentences are now considered unconstitutional. And you became aware just like how many people are in this situation it's really overwhelming it's so overwhelming and. You know this whole notion of criminal justice reform if that's what people want to call it it's popular now it's fashionable and many people are talking about it it has bipartisan support you know but I'm always still surprised at how little people. Really know about how the system works and so it's one of the reasons why I wanted to write a book I wanted to write about what I learned you know when to share the stories of the extraordinary men and women who are serving these draconian sentences who were victims of the world drugs and being a part of the clemency Project 2014 I came in contact with thousands and thousands and I came in contact with their loved ones and their families and I remembered my mom was in prison and my mom served 2 and a half years in prison Terry and those were the longest one happy years of my life and I couldn't imagine if my mom had 203040 years life without parole and so in my work I am very conscious of merging My lived experiences with my legal experience and ensuring that people directly impacted people are centered and that their voices are amplified because there are hundreds of thousands of dollars Johnson's and we have a lot of work to do to restore a sense of fairness that should be at the heart of this nation's criminal legal system. Well let me reintroduce you here if you're just joining us my guest is Britney Barnett her new memoir is called a knock at midnight we'll be back after we take a short break I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air. Comes from this station and from superior. Now through January 4th. And participating retailers have donated more than $200000000.00 to help those in need. Dot com slash share. And from Capital One Capital One spanking app lets. Manage their money any time anywhere Capital One this banking reimagined what's in your wallet Capital One and. So Forth comes from Greenberg T.M.'s specializing in tough cases of depression and o.c.d. Non-drug noninvasive an f.d.a. Cleared for those who have not been helped by medication or have worsening symptoms T.M.'s there at the may help. This week on disrupted how can be a force for change. I have no problem turning around and having politics and sports. Talks about justice and how she and others are keeping the conversation going I'm. Joined in this afternoon to support comes from the Community Foundation for Greater New Haven support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from you our members and from Connecticut magazine the December issue features food artisans local boards will love plus the annual Holiday Gift Guide on newsstands and on line at Connecticut Mag dot com. This is Fresh Air I'm Terry Gross let's get back to my interview with Brittany Barnett a lawyer who has been fighting for people serving life sentences without parole because of the mandatory minimum sentences legislated as part of the war on drugs her clients were convicted of nonviolent drug crimes on flimsy evidence and given sentences that have since been deemed unfair and unconstitutional she is responsible for freeing dozens of people. So you got into this work in part because of your mother who became addicted to crack when you were around 10 and as you say she served 2 and a half years in prison when she was addicted How did you watch her personality and behavior change. Do is to my mom being addicted to crack cocaine there was a time in my childhood where life was an emotional rollercoaster because of her addiction there's something about being Terry and watching devastation unfold within your mom your tiny arms reach your way and I feel. And I know that many children in the Save As you age and for some reason we feel we can fix our parents so we can save them you know why they say my mama from addiction and I knowing at the time that why I couldn't fix her. Nor was it my responsibility to. My mom is my hero my mom was a nurse she put herself through nursing school she cared for my sister and I the best she could and then she. Had a crack cocaine addiction that became much stronger than she was and so to see her at the top. And then the see my hero ground 0 was definitely. A time of my life. Carried. The Won't you know there are many mixed emotions. Fear worry concern resentment anger. And all the while. There was this is the ugh conditional love. So the 1st time your mother was arrested you had to take a day off from school you were a freshman in high school at the time to go to her hearing you weren't with your grandmother describe how your mother was brought out into the court and what your reaction was. I remember going to the courtroom in River County Texas where I'm from and 1st having to walk as the statue of a Confederate soldier in the parking lot in climbing the steps of the. Courthouse with my grandma my mother's mama. And I were sitting in the court room and I remember. The door opening and I see a share of walk through with the cowboy hat on. And behind him was my mama. And I will never forget this I she was in a sawyer jail uniform it was black and white you know with those large black and white stripes that you would see in alone until Khartoum am it was so big and hanging off of her and. My mama you know we looked at each other and we smile to keep from crying. But it was. Heartbreaking to see my momma like that in. Made me think you know what kind of system is this that she's been brought into you know my mom clearly had a drug addiction. She committed a crime I was placed on probation my mama never been in trouble before. And because my mother could not pass her drug test. She was revoking probation and given more probation to fell another judge has given more probation until ultimately she was sentenced to serve time in the takes is prison but not because she committed any new. Crimes. Bad that the only crime she committed if you want to call it that was the crime against herself. And her own body from our addiction my mother needed help she needed every habilitation and not punishment. You write that 11 family member is in prison the whole family is in prison and you founded a group called Girls embracing mothers in which girls are funded to take long trips to visit their mothers in prison because it's sometimes like a 234 hour car or bus trip to get there and you found that you founded this group because you experienced this firsthand having to travel hours to see your mother and it was very traumatizing for you to see her in those conditions set the scene for us a little bit when you were visiting your mother and me even even just getting into the prison to see her what was that part like. The entire process of visiting a loved one in prison is dehumanizing from the moment you drive on to the prison grounds. I remember the very 1st visit. To my mom while she was in prison. I couldn't wait to get there was a 2 and a half hour trip from Dallas and I couldn't wait to see mom. There. And I get there. Only to find out that I couldn't get a contact visit with her. Because she had not been in prison for 60 days yet and so I had to visit my mother through the glass. And anyone who's ever visited their loved one in prison through the glass can tell you just added of their glasses about 3 inches thick and your loved one is right there on the others but it feels like you might as well be on another planet and I remember. Being so disappointed at not getting the more. Urges to mail her. You have to speak to your loved one through the glass using a. Telephone. In. Press their phone so hard against my face Terry because I did not want to miss the sound. Of my Mama's voice and. This glares was a barrier to our maternal by. That bars visit. Was. Devastating for me of how did we get here you know we laughed and we cried a lot and then we led to keep from crying even more in a side I would never forget is while I was visiting with my mom and I had my hand a big as her hand on the glass. And I saw tomorrow i a tiny set of lip prints. Try to read. Their mama before my visit. And as I wrote me. When you 1st asked for your mother you had to give her prison number as opposed to her name what was it like for you to memorize her prison number a number that you reprint in your memoir. 137-4671. 7 is a number I'll never forget is the number assigned to my mother by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice when she began serving her prison sentence and that is the 1st step of dehumanization and the criminal legal system once you're incarcerated and. One of the visit to my mom I walked into the prison visit room and I remember telly the guard at the front. Desk that I was there to visit Evelyn for bright. And kind of Bart back at me inmate number. And it honestly Terry took me a managed to realize. She wasn't going to I do have a moment there her name Evelyn for right. She needed this 7 digit number and I had of course memorized this number on my way to the prison because I did it want to forget it and get denied visitation privileges and so once I got over my initial shock I was able to tell her 137-4671 let me reintroduce you here if you're just joining us my guest is Brittany Barnett her new memoir is called a knock at midnight we'll be right back this is Fresh Air. I'm Rachel Martin from n.p.r. As 2020 comes to a close you might be reflecting on the last 12 months maybe you're figuring out what you'll take away from the year as we head into a new one Morning Edition is here to help Yes we get you ready for your day with updates on the news but we also help you understand what's happening and what it means for you so take a moment to reflect and listen every weekday. Weekday mornings from 5 to 9. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from Progressive Insurance offering snapshot a program that adjusts insurance rates based on safe driving habits now that's progressive learn more at progressive dot com or 1800 progressive and a cloud based phone service 1st small businesses with an automated virtual receptionist and mobility features to run their businesses from anywhere more at 00 dot com This is Fresh Air Let's get back to my interview with Brittany Barnett a lawyer who has been fighting for people serving life sentences without parole because of the mandatory minimum sentences legislated as part of the war on drugs her clients were convicted of nonviolent drug crimes typically on flimsy evidence and given sentences that have since been deemed unfair and unconstitutional but not retroactive. She also writes in the book about her mother and her mother's addiction for drugs and her mother's incarceration. Your mother got sober in prison prison during those 2 and a half years that she was in prison and she's state sober since she's back to being a nurse. Still active as a nurse Yeah she were actually works as a drug recovery nurse that's great. Do you think that this is an argument that prison helped her break her addiction and resume a good life a good healthy life with a really good job helping other people that work I'm sure is fulfilling to her. Absolutely not I do not feel that my mother needs to go to prison my mom needs rehabilitation not incarceration and my mother became sober in prison because she voluntarily. Took courses in voluntarily began her journey of recovery these courses that my mother took to have self-improvement in to overcome her addiction were mandatory by the prison system and I always say that my mother became so. In spite of prison not because of it. When you were growing up in East Texas many of the people you know were involved with selling drugs in one way or another. And clued in your boyfriend why do you think at the risk of asking a question that may be obvious why do you think that so many people in this community and this was a community in an area that had been a send down town and afterwards if you were black and caught after sundown on the streets you were going to be probably in prison so this was a small black community between 2 railroad tracks and that's where you spent a lot of your childhood so why do you think so many people were involved with drugs either using selling distributing. You know I grew up during a time in rural is Texas where unfortunately some form of involvement in drugs was the norm part of the culture and you either knew someone selling drugs or you knew someone using drugs and. I dated a drug dealer I say new year of high school and looking back now. I realize that. We did it no better we did it now what we were up against and I had other people I had friends who sold drugs and when I look back. During those times of high school. You know none of. The guys or girls that I knew selling drugs woke up one day that I want to be a drug dealer. I saw they're selling drugs to eat I saw and knew that they were selling drugs to help their mom with the lie Now granted there are some people who become addicted to the money and the lifestyle and that's a whole nother story but there is this mechanism of survival that I witness in me being that proximate to it gave me a different perspective so your boyfriend did sell drugs when when you were a senior in high school and you knew that could you have been charged of a crime because he was your boyfriend and you knew that he was selling drugs could you have ended up in prison knowing what I know now without a doubt I knew nothing about federal drug conspiracy laws when I was 18 years old I knew nothing about this little guilty by association Yes What charges could have you been charged with. I could have been charged with federal drug conspiracy because I would try to Dallas on a couple occasions as a senior in high school where I would stop of East Dallas to white clapboard house and my boyfriend would go in the House come out 10 minutes later and start a package wrapped in plastic under the front seat in my car and I never asked any questions he never told me anything about it but I knew that there were drugs in that packet. In it 18 years old I never thought much about it I never knew there was this thing called federal drug conspiracy where I could have been implicated in his wrongdoings and learning about drug laws in law school and learning more about how the system worked in how. I could have been in prison just like your Rhonda Jones you know I was determined to fight for sure on the Joneses live as if it were my own because it was. In a few weeks if you petition a president for clemency for one of your clients that president will be President Joe Biden now Biden was one of the authors of the 1904 crime bill that was signed by President Clinton what was the impact of that crime bill and what will it be like to petition President Biden the Ampad of the 1994 crime bill was far reaching and devastating. And there is no doubt that after the implementation of that deal we saw that all prison populations skyrocket we saw state prison population skyrocket and. I am hope for Dad the Biden administration and takes concrete to. Help restore. Justice. To the nation's criminal legal system many many people are still in prison suffering unjustly under these your county in drug law you know in. To being that there are people set to die in prison. For laws that have since been deemed. Is unconscionable to me and during my were. Terri I've come across some of the most brilliant minds through my clients and there is this untapped population of genius that is behind bars and human ingenuity that our nation needs to thrive that has been locked away for decades and I'm hopeful that the Biden administration keeps that human element in mind sees the heartbeat and works to break the chains and restore families and entire communities. Of Britney Burnett thank you so much for talking with us about your work and your life I greatly appreciate it thank you so much Britney Burnett's new memoir is called a knock at midnight This is Fresh Air. When you want to be somewhere else but you can't listening to a well told story can help you with least feel transported try asking your smart speaker to play n.p.r. Or this station by name. On the column McEnroe show one of our favorite guest is writer a.j. Jacobs who recently described what it was like to try to know everything a lot of the facts that are stuck in my brain I wish that I could remove but I can't for instance have 13 now so now I remember that and so did you. Listen this afternoon. Support comes from the office of the state historian of Connecticut this holiday you can give the gift of Connecticut history with the new book Creating Connecticut critical moments that shape the great state details that c.t. History dot org This is Fresh Air Our critic at large John Powers spends much of his time reading and watching every year at this time he chooses a few books films and t.v. Shows that he thinks deserves special attention this year he says he wants to highlight 7 things that he knows will stick with him as we go into the new year like many people I spent a lot down months looking for distractions but even as I enjoyed watching Inspector Morse murder after murder in Oxford what I want to highlight about 2020 or some books films and t.v. Shows that didn't simply distract me but delved into enduring questions of freedom dignity and survival. First up is square haunting Francesca Wade's fascinating portrait of 5 groundbreaking women Virginia Woolf imma just poet h.-d. Past is this Jane Harrison economic historian Eileen power and mystery writer during the l sayers who all lived in London's Bohemian Mecklenburg square between the 2 world wars and telling their stories which collide overlap an echo one another when follows the messy inspiring destinies of women who fought to rise above social restrictions oppressive notions of femininity and the condescension of men who were nearly always their inferiors you find a similar trajectory with filmmaker I knew subverted she was long treated as something of a lesser outlier of the male French new wave hit by her death last year at age 90 the world recognized that this natural born feminist was actually a new wave precursor and a major artist her career is captured in the year's best boxset criterions the complete films of on us Vida topped by her present Masterpiece cléo from 5 to 7 about a Shantou who learns to see the world instead of worrying about how the world sees her. What made Vita great wasn't simply her formal daring but her boundless curiosity she made movies about everything artists and drifters peasants and the Black Panthers the Vietnam War Her family and even her cat. I've already ordered gift copies of the year's most to revel of Tori book African American Poetry 250 years of struggle in the song so probably edited by Kevin Young There's a stunning collection runs from Phillis Wheatley an African born slave who learned English and wrote elegant verse to such present day luminaries as Terence Hayes and Claudia Rincon. Well the poems are steeped in the sorrow pain and rage you'd expect from people treated so inhumanely their writers most of whom I didn't know aren't propagandists they're poets who explore the whole range of human experience love death jazz food men a pause fatherhood gentrification moon landings even jive artists who wrap themselves in black suffering just to get ahead. In different ways they celebrate in Lucille Clifton is words that every day something has tried to kill me and has failed slavery itself lies at the heart of Showtime's The good Lord Bird a sly African-American riff on Huckleberry Finn based on James McBride's novel this mini series is narrated by Henry Shackleford an orphan black tween taken under the wing of the grandiose abolitionist John Brown. Here Brown traveling with Henry his sons and a freed slave named broad next to the military officer who wants to arrest him and ask you question. You believe. He believes in Jesus Christ as are a lot of things. Yes Do you think that Jesus of Nazareth Thanks much for the broad. You mention the Jesus thinks you more important than he. Believe that Jesus sees us all as his shoulder and head you would oppose us and fight to free your own slaves brothers and sisters Brown you have been charged with murder theft of property and treason well as money do I have left Sam. Dollars to just east. German. 3rd. President do cabinet in. A job. Again institution that does not serve to the throne of our most Holies savior. Hopscotching between travesty and tragedy the good Lord Bird offers and irreverently multi-faceted take on historical figures including Frederick Douglas usually pro-trade with an Lloyd's seriousness and Ethan Hawke's a dazzling performance Brown is by turns to tender and violent righteous in absurd and though he makes a hash of the Harper's Ferry raid Henry knows that Brown is right to insist that white men have the moral imperative to fight slavery. Our moral challenge is climate change and it's the subject of a great new book The Ministry of the future by Kim Stanley Robinson a crack political novelist dressed up in the space suit of a science fiction writer his hero is Mary Murphy the Irish head of the UN's Ministry of the future whose mission is to protect the planet for the generations to come but how can she or anyone else possibly do that the books elaborate fictional answer involves everything from developing a new form of currency to eco terrorists using drones to take down jets bursting with ideas on every page the novel raises inconvenient questions about overcoming climate change can it be done without violence can the rich stay rich and how will our daily lives need to change to have a sustainable carbon output the happy news is that Robinson is utopian enough to think that it's not too late to revolutionize our way of living and speaking of revolution the great American radical Emma Goldman once said that she didn't want to be part of one if it wouldn't let her dance in that spirit I want to end this list on an upbeat note by praising the years 2 most ecstatic movies which both use dancing to offer a glimpse of utopia. In each film of David Burns American utopia directed by Spike Lee an exuberant multicultural cast responds to our troubled times by dancing into the audience singing the Greek talking head song Road to Nowhere and in Steve McQueen's Lovers Rock on Amazon Prime video young people's West Indian heritage escape the Reeses them in violence of $980.00 s. Learned at a house party where they dance and sing and fall into both films remind us that even in dark days we can find transcendent joy in something as evanescent as a pox on. John Powers is Fresh Air's critical large you can find John's year and list at fresh air npr dot org Tomorrow on fresh air I'll talk with Maggie Haberman about her 4 years covering the Trump presidency for the New York Times and she started covering him before he was president when she was a reporter for The New York Post she's broken many stories about the Trump White House and she has incredible sources until last year was one of them hope you'll join us I'm Terry. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from 'd little passports offering hands on activity kits to keep kids in gapes 10 expand their minds designed to help kids to explore the world and unpack the mysteries of science more a little passports dot com. And from Total Wine and more where in-store teams can recommend a bottle of wine spirit or beer for the holidays shoppers can explore more than 8000 wines 2500 beers and 3000 spirits more at Total Wine dot com. Thanks for supporting Connecticut Public Radio. The 2020 holiday office party is going to look very different this year with big in person events a no go and most people working remotely normally the Christmas party and. We put everybody on the majority another to change how some companies are jazzing up their zoom holiday parties this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News. Listen this afternoon at 4 support comes from the Connecticut Humane Society. Like a lot of parts of this economy the music industry has been stress tested what was already broken is really creeping in collapsing Ryssdal How musicians are trying to make ends meet and what touring world might look like on the other side of this pandemic that's next on markets will. Join us tonight at 630 this is Connecticut Public Radio w n.p.r. w N.p.r. One Meriden 90.5. 81 Norwich 89.1. 88.5. F.m. Sold Hampton and 91.3 w 25880 stores at 99.5 and got were. The New England Patriots story will be dominated just in my own particular memory. And that will be part of. A very structured. About the New England Patriots one of the most incredibly dominating franchises in the modern history of sports and one that was kind of really rescued from Nero livea by Robert Kraft and his family of course Robert family. These are all people who become very very controversial in lots of different ways it's the team everybody loves or the team that everybody loves to hate probably more of the latter than the former. Live from n.p.r. News I'm Lakshmi saying President elect Joe Biden has pledged to get the u.s. Back into the Paris climate accord and back at the forefront of the global response to climate change well the person he's chosen to promote the u.s. Is environmental priorities on the world stage former Secretary of State John Kerry tells n.p.r. He's talking to energy companies we have to wait till January 20th before we engage subsequently promoting any policy but I'm listening to what their needs are so I can and how they view the world so I can begin to understand better what the possibilities may be once we are once the president is sworn in on January 20th as the incoming presidential envoy on climate Kerry says the world will need greater cooperation from China which like the u.s. Is among its top polluters the Chinese government has been a frequent target of President Trump over intellectual property theft trade and the origins of the coronavirus pandemic New York state announced today it will divest its $226000000000.00 pension fund from fossil fuels more from N.P.R.'s Sally Herships New York State comptroller Thomas p. Tenafly says New York State's common retirement fund has any ambitions goal to transition its investments to net 0 greenhouse gas emissions by 2042 Napoli says the fund has developed standards to assess companies transition readiness energy companies or others that fail to meet those standards may be sold while the Us is no longer a member of the Paris climate accord this would put it in line with global d. Carbon is ation goals New York's public pension fund which represents 1000000 state and local government employees and retirees is the 3rd largest in the country it's already divested from 22 coal companies Sally Herships n.p.r. News Britain's medical regulators has people with a significant history of allergies should not take the newly approved covert 1000 vaccine from Pfizer N.P.R.'s Frank. Langfitt reports from London to health care workers in the u.k. Had allergic reactions the regulatory agency said people of allergic reactions to medicines food or vaccines in general should steer clear of this one which the u.k. Began rolling out to thousands of people on Tuesday official said the national health service workers who carried adrenalin pens with them are both recovering Well Britain's regulator approved emergency use of the Pfizer vaccine which like other covert vaccines has been developed in record time because of the urgency of the pandemic given the speed vaccine experts say the government must take even more care to monitor any bad reactions to the vaccine so you can launch the vaccine in 70 hospitals on Tuesday and plans to expand distribution to 200 family practices next week Frank Langfitt n.p.r. News London separately Canada is now the 3rd nation after the u.k. In Bahrain to authorize a Pfizer vaccine for emergency use vaccines expected to be authorized in the u.s. After an f.d.a. Advisory panel meets tomorrow this is n.p.r. Support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations and other contributors include little passports offering activity kits to keep kids engaged and expand their minds they'll explore France and Brazil and build a volcano and submarine from their kitchen table little passports dot com Good afternoon I'm at the wire with these headlines the state's largest hospital organization says it is preparing to distribute vaccines to health care workers as soon as this weekend Hartford health care pharmacy director Eric as the vaccine could arrive tomorrow initial shots could be given to people who treat coded 1000 patients in hospital has said it could begin vaccinating its 29000 employees next week health care workers emergency medical responders and nursing home residents will be among the 1st to get vaccinated elderly people and those with underlying health problems will be among those who are next in line Mashantucket Pequot tribal nation and Mohegan Sun say they are halting plans to build a new casino in East Windsor for the time being. At least that's according to the Hartford Current the tribes had previously said a possible tribal wins casino was years in the future when plans for the casino were initially unveiled Connecticut lawmakers and tribal leaders said there was a need to act quickly to counter a new casino that was then planned for Springfield Massachusetts since that time m.g.m. Springfield has been built and opened its revenue was initially lower than expected this is Connecticut Public Radio it's one o 5 I met a wire a meteorologist Garrett r.g.s. There is some winter like weather in the south after noon we'll see scattered snow and rain showers and temperatures again or cool will be in the thirty's chewer around 40 so have a heavier code if you are going to be out and then will break free from that show slowly over the next couple of days high temperatures tomorrow should be up in the forty's and by Friday will be close to 50 with the Connecticut Public Radio weather report on meteorologist a garret r.g.s. Kids learn all the time that's why we're providing the p.b.s. Kids channel educational shows trusted everywhere are now available at all times of the day and night to learn more at c.t. Public dot org slash p.b.s. Kids support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from u. Conn's Jorgensen center presenting an evening with Kelly Ohana and joy holiday songs and personal favorites from Broadway and the American songbook Jorgensen digital stage December 12th at 8 Jorgensen dot Yukon dot. dynasty with me with Ok that was mildly painful. So I want to say 3 things here at the beginning of the show hope I remember 103 of those are the 1st one is if you're not a sports fan. Ok it looks like I'm back Ok. So I'm sorry I must hear that Ike We're having a really weird technical day at the station but I hear I cut out for a 2nd so I know some of you are not sports fans I'm looking at you Patrice Fitzgerald and usually turn the show off don't do that all right because we are going to talk about this this team but I mean we're not going to be talking about gap responsibility in 34 defense of sites not that you know what that means anyway we're going to talk about human beings and politics and money and all kinds of other stuff. And just sell bunch and that was number one number 2 I want to dedicate this show to my sort of son in law Jamie Cameron and to my sort of grandson Charlie Cameron who are wonderful nice people despite being diehard lifelong New England Patriots fans so 3rd there oh yeah there's going to be a point in the show where I'm kind of almost going to be like aghast and that's the sort of whole move the Patriots to Hartford thing and that's just because I played a larger than usual journalistic role all that I have things to say but the moment most of the talk is going to be done by my guest Jeff Benedict is a special features writer for Sports Illustrated and author of 16 books his latest is the dynasty which I hold here in my hand it just has those words his name and a New England Patriots football helmet on it that's all you really need to know so Jeff Benedict Welcome back to our show it's great to be back thanks for having me on so I think you would make the case and I'm going to ask you to do that that the little thing that we hear Joe Buck or Jim Nantz or somebody saying at the end of that montage is if anything kind of an understatement it isn't simply that there's a sequence of decades in which one football franchise after another becomes a dynasty you really think that the Patriots belong in a much smaller group of dominant sports franchises that transcend mere football success so make that case. Yeah that's actually a pretty easy case to May because in the 100 year history of the National Football League there's never been a team and organization that's 16 championships in a 20 year span with the same 3 principles in place the owner Robert Kraft the head coach Bill Belichick and the quarterback Tom Brady there's really legitimately Ben you know probably 4 dynasties dressed before then there were the Packers in the sixty's who want a couple Super Bowls there was the Steelers in the seventy's and one for the 49 er's in the eighty's and early ninety's and then the cowboys who won 3 in the early ninety's these guys have won 6 they've been 19 and 20 year span and what's really separated them from everyone else in football is the the length or long jetty of the marriage between the quarterback and the coach so I think the discussion that they belong in is not whether they're the best dynasty in the history of football that's kind of an open and shut case it's where do they where do they sit with other dynasties like the Yankees of the demise yo and Mantle era or the Celtics of the Bill Russell era and I think that or maybe the bowls of the Michael Jordan air and I think that this team since with Probably those 3 teams in the conversation about the greatest dynasties in American history so this book is in many respects a profile of a kind of 3 cornered relationship you've Are you kind of made reference to it in our conversation on the one hand there's Robert Kraft the Will new owner of the New England Patriots then there's Bill Belichick the long time coach and the 3rd corner obviously is Tom Brady in a we it seems as though reading the book that you feel and I think many people feel that if you take any one of those corners aware. Say and replace that with almost anybody else you don't have the phenomena you just described that there's something about the balance among these 3 men that creates a very special. Entity that even hard to put a name on so maybe you could just say a little bit more about that just very quickly your pride these 3 people to people who maybe don't know them all that well. Late in the process so I was I spent 2 years inside the organization and have a lot of access to these guys in the organization near the end of the reporting process I visited Robert Kraft in New York at his he has an apartment that overlooks central Arkansas the 1st time that I have been there I've been with him a lot I now but I've never been to this apartment when you walk in you look across the room and there are these 2 big windows that overlook Central Park and in between them were 2 framed pictures of the Beatles these pictures of the Beatles were taken when they 1st came to America to appear on the has all been show and they were signed by the Beatles authentic signatures when Robert Kraft came into the room I asked him about the pictures and he told me those pictures were taken in the building we were standing in and and he started to talk about how much he loved the Beatles when they were a band and how sad he was when they broke up so prematurely when they were on top of the world and I started thinking about how he looked at Brady and elegiac all these years he really did see them as the n.f.l. Version of Lennon and McCartney They were the 2 best in the world at what they did He had both of them on his payroll and he understood how hard it was going to be to keep a coach like valid check in a quarterback like Brady married for very long his whole tenure as an owner was about how to keep him on the same stage these 2 bright stars. Them both burn so hot and I think the fact that he kept them together for 20 years was really a function of 2 things Number one he formed a relationship with Tom that was more like a father son relationship he just rides time as his 5th son and Tom was really close with you know with Brady sons as well they were like brothers to him and secondly he had a very different relationship with Bill Belichick Belichick is more distant but it's a professional relationship that it that involves a great deal of trust he really viewed Belichick like his business partner in this venture of running a football team and those 2 relationships keep the quarterback and coach together and the reason that's so critical is because Brady and valid check off the field are a lot like Lennon and McCartney were at the end where they would go into the studio at Abbey Road and make incredible music but as soon as they walked out of the studio they wouldn't go to a pub together and have beer they go their separate ways and that's really how. We're it's a miracle in many ways that they played together for 20 years that's the secret was they had 2 weapons on their side of the field that were the best in the game I think if they were separated sure Brady would have won some Super Bowls and Belichick would have won some as well but they would have won 6 and bent and 9 and I think the genius of the owner was he figured that out really early. Let me just since you're mentioning Belhadj a little bit 1st of all you know that the most fascinating portrait in the book I think is the Robert Kraft who I think comes across is a very different person than I had imagined him to be and you get a guy who is so close to Elton John that you know when he and his wife celebrate a big what. Elton John just shows up and plays music for you get a guy who really does sort of agonize about things like drafting a guy like Christian Peter and then finding out that he really you know has a terrible series of accusations against him about sexual violence towards women. And really ones of doing a very hard thing about it I know that his his conscience and his complexity really kind of jumped out at me Belgica I still I think a lot of people find this guy an enigma and he's for people who don't know or I mean this is a guy who really kind of dresses like a homeless person he wears a hoodie that often has the arms kind of cut off at the shoulders he he he wears a perpetual scowl on his face when you see him the beginning of the game a reasonable conclusion would be that right before exiting the locker room he ate a lot of kitten you know just to sort of get himself in the mood he needs to be in to win a game so I think to what degree did you manage to see past all of that and see you have like a better sense than the average person of who Bill Belichick really is or is he just really that guy I think you know one of the most important jobs my job when most What aspects of my job is to observe and listen. A lot more then talk and so early on in this project I would say for the 1st season which would have been the 2800 season for May I watched these 3 men an awful lot and I watched them up close I was in the locker room when the team would come off the field I wasn't there to ask questions or conduct interviews I was there to observe to keep my mouth shut and see things and I watched all 3 of them and the way they interact with each other the way they interact with the rest of the team. You can learn a lot just by watching and and I think that bell and check he is unique he is very different he has this ability which by the way Robert Kraft doesn't possess this ability which is to emotionally divorce himself from the very difficult part of the business which is cutting players saying goodbye letting go of guys often when they're at the peak of their career when they're at stars level or star status he lets them go and these are guys that have become very attached to the fan base in New England who are part of the fabric of the community and he cuts them without a 2nd thought bad something that the owner isn't capable of doing but he knows valid check is any appreciates the need for someone with that capacity as his head coach and I think that's part of the complexity of their relationship they are extremely different men but there are moments like when Bill Bellatrix father dies which is a really interesting moment in this story I think. Belichick finds out about his dad passing in the middle of the night to Bellatrix credit he'd been on the phone with his dad hours earlier they talked all the time when he found out his dad had passed he noted fied Robert and the next day the pages had a game crash showed up and gave me Baldrick show. Up and coached Kraft figured he wouldn't coach that he would get to get home and be with his mother and get ready for the funeral but Bill's point was you know my father would want me to do this this is where I should be and the only player who knew in advance of that game that bill of lost his father was Tom and that's because Robert felt it was important to tell Tom So Tom plays that game knowing that Bill's lost his father none of the other players know that and then as soon as the game is over in the locker room bill discloses to the team that his dad passed away the night before it's the 1st time that the 53 players on the Patriots roster had ever seen Bill vulnerable and it's an interesting moment I interviewed numerous players about that moment and they said they were so they were spellbound they were stunned and they really didn't know how to respond because they'd never seen him that way and then there's a very touching moment after Bill tells that to the team Robert steps forward and gives him the game ball in honor of his dad and they they hug each other and the reason that's a big deal is because Robert hugs a lot of people a lot and he and Tom have that kind of relationship but Bill is not that kind of guy he's not a touchy feely emotionally expressive man but in that moment he was and I think you so there are these moments in the story where you see insights into who these 3 men are and you also see how different they are but in some really personal emotional ways they they have a tightness between them that I just think is really unique in sports so. Before we get to the end of this 1st segment we have to talk about the job that I him immediately turns to because I'm a human being and I can't help myself and because the. Then it gave me p.t.s.d. To read it it's called Dear John it is about his story that begins more or less in the spring of $1008.00 Robert Kraft is unhappy with the facilities in Massachusetts the Massachusetts legislature is suing no signs of giving him what he wants which is a very large public to private transfer of money to build a stadium which we have become very accustomed to these days and then he gets is very peculiar offer from the state of Connecticut and I'll let you pick up the story just explain what happens. You know I think the thing to start with is Robert Kraft didn't want to take his team anywhere out of Massachusetts he had offers from Rhode Island and other places to go but he had a long battle going with the state house in Massachusetts they were not willing to support any Basically any construction of a new stadium and it got to the point where the Patriots had the worst stadium in the n.f.l. They had to get a new building and when it was clear that it wasn't going to be in Massachusetts going to Roland actually approached the Patriots he specifically approached Jonathan Kraft in Monto Connecticut where the paper where the crabs own a paper mill basically and Roland was visiting their wallet while campaigning for his last term as governor and at that facility Jonathan was there to greet him and he Roland was a stew he knew what was going on in Massachusetts and he let Jonathan know that he was interested in talking to his father about the prospect of the team coming to Connecticut and that they would treat him a lot differently than he was being treated in Massachusetts one thing led to another they got going in conversations they had meetings they went to each other's homes they started to build a reporter and when it was really clear to the crass that it was not going to have . And in Massachusetts they decided to enter into this agreement with the state of Connecticut it's important to say that they knew this wasn't their top choice but it seemed like their only choice at that point and really Roland offered the kind of deal that you can't refuse. It was a the state was paying for everything and with the guarantees that were built into this offer it would have made Mr Kraft the you know the wealthiest owner in the n.f.l. And it would have happened fast there was a there was a ton of guaranteed money in fact to march Oh yeah let me just jump in here Jeff it was an obscene deal it was and the and Roland's entire philosophy at the time was how can I get this franchise to do something it doesn't want to do I will offer them the sun the moon and the stars on behalf of my taxpayers will eventually be having to pay for this and the degree to which this was unprecedented in the history of the n.f.l. Unprecedented in the history of professional sports in terms of one state's just in scene large just to another team really really bothered me at the time I remember kind of flyspeck in the deal when we 1st got to look at it I mean you know beyond this all this incredible stuff where basically Connecticut would pay for almost everything and the Patriots would pay almost nothing it was even the case that Lakeland see Bruce Springsteen or Elton John for that matter did a concert on the grounds of this stadium which the taxpayers of Connecticut How did built some time when the Patriots weren't using it the concession profits from like popcorn would go to Robert Kraft. Could it would even keep money from times when the stadium wasn't even being used for Petris fact it was just unbelievable at the time and what was amazing Jonathan and I'll start talking again was that. Recently in Connecticut the vast majority of people just thought it was wonderful the Hard for the current in the most toxic forfeiture of its obligation to report on things put out an extra like it was ve day or something said touchdown across the front so much for the idea that we're really going to look critically at this deal and see whether it really is sufficiently advantageous to the state of Connecticut No no they just called it a touchdown because it existed can you tell I'm better. Yes. You know I I think that you know at the time $374000000.00 and authorized state funding to build the stadium. And the deal structure to where was it did seem like an obscene deal and it's not really there's not much point and sort of related getting that now however I would say that it's interesting. If you came to today and looked back that number looks a lot smaller than it did then and I think if you look at what the Patriots have done sense that deal fell apart just look at what's happened in the last 20 years. Think about all the winning think about all the Super Bowls all the playoff games that have been played in Foxboro nationally televised how they became basically the most important sports franchise to the network of c.b.s. Think about the Patriots place shopping plaza that has gone up in a place like Fox for a where there's nothing there's no other reason to go to Foxboro and it's not on a highway it's not near a city and they have movie theaters and stores that range from you know Bass to Trader Joe's to it is a massive operation that's now in 5 Pro making tons of money you do have to at least ask the question with an open mind how different would Hartford be today if that deal had gone through with the state and that money to build the stadium and bring in what became the the greatest sports team of the 21st century to hard for with all those championships and all of the other business that could have gone up around it it's at least worth the debate of whether that was such a bad deal or not because here's the thing at the time nobody knew that the Patriots were going to go on this winning streak we have to remember in the late ninety's they had never won anything and so in hindsight that deal doesn't look so bad for Connecticut it actually looks like it could have turned out to be a really good deal we really won't ever know that but look when Robert Kraft paid what seemed like an obscene amount of money to buy the Patriots a few years earlier the most expensive price tag in the history of the n.f.l. For the worst team in the league at the time that deal looks like a steal today so we're not going to really to get it because we don't have time but because there would be no one put. So there when it was all over and by the way there's a terrific scene in Jeff's book. Which I've never heard before which involves John Roland when he realizes the crowds are or maybe about to walk away from this deal offering to bend over a chair and have various things inserted in his person which might have been kind of a predictor of moment given the way his life went later but. I won't say that more about it but you know when it was all over there were these kind of multiple theories around one of them was that hard for it had always just been beat basically and that that had been misdirection that there had been no intention to come here he will crouch was simply trying to leverage more support more public support in Massachusetts there was another theory that you know as as Robert and Myra crowd went around to galas and dinner parties and stuff like that up in Boston there was like this what are you doing to us thing that was beginning to weigh on him I have always subscribed to the theory and I had a pretty good view of this at the time and it's pretty much there in your book the same way that it is certain point Robert Kraft who is a very smart man concluded he could not always trust the things that John Rowland told him of John Roll and said something had been taken care of that didn't really mean that that thing had been taken care of it did mean the e.p.a. Was satisfied about something it didn't mean the c.t.g. Was willing to move its steam plant or whatever it was being talked about that he suddenly realized that some of the stuff this guy this governor had been saying to him was b.s. And that was really enough to make him back away from this table groaning with goodies but but give us your interpretation of why there weren't wasn't hard for New England Patriots I think that the I certainly understand why at the time most people particularly in Connecticut I was in Connecticut I mean Connecticut now I know how people in our state felt about it it looks like from the outside looking in that this state was used as. Say as leverage in that that just wasn't the case it's true that he didn't really want to come here but he knew he had to come here and you don't go to the extent of notifying your season ticket holders that their tickets will be honored in Hartford and less you're going to Hartford I mean they were coming and Jamie now since he who had long time been governor Rowland's right hand man and his lobbying firm work for the governor he got permission to work for the crafts in this particular case and you know I spent time with with Jay for the book I interviewed him I interviewed Governor Rowland's lawyer if they were really coming I think the turning point was there were 2 things the relationship between Roland and crafts started to sour when Crabb started raising difficult questions about issues involving the property where the stadium was going to be constructed there were legitimate questions the steam mill was still there and the state was at a standstill there was no telling when they were going to get the owners to come to terms and get the steam mill out of there that was when Roland had the press conference and threaten to tearing down of self I mean there was stuff like that and when when Kraft was asking for extensions on timelines you know Roland started to become less the friend that he was in the beginning and more petulant more angry more like a bully and less like a business partner and I think that that was a telling moment for Kraft who builds long term relationships of trust I think the other thing was the state of Massachusetts finally realized they were really losing the Patriots and that some of the people in government the governor in particular and the head of the Senate realized that they couldn't let the House of Representatives in the state dictate whether they live lost the team or not so they went back door and reached out to the commissioner's office in New York and the. Missioner wanted all along to keep the Patriots in Massachusetts he didn't want them in Connecticut because Connecticut was the market territory of the giants in the Jets and it would cause big problems in the league if the Patriots moved into it and so they had a mutual interest in New York and in Massachusetts to partner and figure out a way to not to keep the Patriots in a way when but to bring them back from Hartford because they really were legally in Connecticut at that point all right we're going to stop there are you want to know more about it just one chapter in this of sprawling book everything you want to know about is that in this book I mean if you want to know things about the New England Patriots or the book is The Dynasty we're going to talk more to Jeff Benedict when we come back. Soon For a closer. Look exposure that. Well your voice. Support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from Oak Hill helping people with disabilities stay connected with assistive technology during these difficult times consider a gift to support their various programs this holiday season Ok l.c.t. Dot org. I'm Tanya Moseley civil rights groups are calling on President elect Biden to appoint more black people to top positions and as administration will talk with the head of the. Derrick Johnson also immigrating to the United States can also mean the heartbreak of leaving loved ones behind We'll talk with the stars of the new film farewell That's next time on. This and this afternoon at 3. Sometimes life presents some pretty big challenges to the young performers on our show. I didn't know my own soon so I spent the whole summer. Never knew how much I love playing and assume till it was gone join me Peter do going to meet this determined young disinterested and hear her fantastic performance from the top of this. Hope you can join us Sunday night at 11 support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from you our members and from Hartford health care if you need emotional or mental health support call the Hartford health care hotline 833-621-0600 All right we are back we're talking to Jeff Benedict his book about the Patriots it's called the dynasty. So you know there's a way in which yes the Patriots have approached perfection in a way that very few sports franchises do they also timed it all out perfectly for you because it seems like that period is probably kind of over but there's also a way in which in maybe these things are all tied together the pages excite a kind of anger and disdain from people who are not Petri it's fans in other words it's not just sort of peters fans are not a Patriots fan right it's Patriots fans and then I hate the Petris so much I mean Tucker Ives who works at w. N.p.r. Has probably resigned from his job today because we're even doing this show so I mean where do you what do you think all that comes from is it just the success or is it something else I think that obviously to be be loved is is a sign of success but in sports he ultimately sign of success is to be hated. And the Patriots are a universally hated the most hated team in the n.f.l. The only team that I can think of. That has generated this degree of hatred is the Yankees of yesteryear not the current Yankees but the Yankees of old and obviously the common parallel between the Yankees of old and the New England Patriots of today or at least of the last 20 years is they just won so much more than everybody else. In competitive sports that is a that's that the old woman achievement I think is when every other sports franchise in your industry is Pfizer's you that's the clearest signal that you are head and shoulders above everybody else and I think that that's what comes with the degree of winning that Allen check Kraft and Brady generated over the last 20 years and so for New Englanders it obviously became a badge of honor a source of pride it's why there are so many shirts and signs that say New England versus everybody and it really helps the Patriots actually in terms of how they prepared for games that the sense of us against the world within the building of Gillette Stadium and also when they went out on the road I think it's part of their success formula. There's also this interesting kind of paradox that I see at the heart of the Patriots in terms of their style and which you may or may not agree with I mean in a way I think as just an outsider looking at the Patriots these seem like really kind of a model of discipline there's a way in which Belhadj is admitted this system where you kind of you figure out what's there and you take it you know you you as rarely as possible do you for something that's not there. There's just sort of a very cool calculation about this and it extends to what you were talking about before which is deciding when a player is actually still kind of looking like he's in or near his prime that it's time to get rid of that player stuff like that and that bumps up against a thing that's right near the start of your book and runs through the Patriot story which is the also kind of themis Lee take chances on players who for characterological reasons other teams have given up on you know players who are physically incredibly gifted but there's kind of a knock on them they're not a team player or they're a discipline problem they're an issue in the locker room and Belichick time and time again goes and he wants to get those guys and to me those 2 things kind of they don't make sense side by side discipline and a desire to go find a rebel. Well I think that you know one of the reasons it does make sense is because Bell and check psychologically I just I can't think of another coach in any of the sports leagues in America that are as astute as Belichick is in terms of understanding the psychology of of athletes and football players in particular. What he sees and some of the guys you're thinking of Corey Dillon Randy Moss Dante Stallworth. Rodney Harrison these are all guys that had wrecked bad raps for one reason or another before they came to New England these are also guys that had never won anywhere and there's super competitive athletes who've never won and so what Belichick sees is the chance to get a superior athlete a Hall of Fame caliber player who he can bring in and he's confident that he can mold him to buy into their system to do it their way and he knows that these guys are so hungry for the one thing they don't have to get all the talent in the world but they have no hardware to show for and they're coming to the one place where they think they can actually get the hardware and the reason they think that is because New England has hardware they have more of it than anybody else and so you have this built in system there that is it's magnetic for guys like that and most of them not all of them but most of them when they come they succumb to the program there's a great moment and I actually loved writing about this where Randy Moss I know the story about that though yeah I know the story are going to tell it yet so they you know they come to New England and there's all kinds of questions about their character in the background and all that stuff in their 1st team meeting great Belichick stands. M.b. Rates Tom Brady I mean Brady is the superstar not just of the team but of the league he is the man and here's Belichick just ripping him down in the 1st team meeting and moss and Stallworth look at each other because they're sitting side by side they're like holy you know what. They're flabbergasted by what's happening and they're also flabbergasted with the way Brady responds by not responding in other words it's as if Brady doesn't mind obviously he does mind he's a human being but he tolerate so any puts up with that and as a result of it guys like moss and Stallworth think to themselves hey if Tom is taking it we have to do that too they get in line behind him they line up and they go through the same gauntlet that he does that's like a a secret sauce that no other team has where you have your superstar Can you imagine Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers or any of these guys tolerating that year in and year out the answer is no but that was part of who Tom was he was willing to do it for the sake of the team and it got superstars who came there to do it as well. So I have to ask you about this even though she's not a tenant figure in your book The God pastor who agree that one of the people who didn't necessarily want to take it or think Tom Brady should have to take it is does a whole bunch in his supermodel wife she's a really unusual athlete's wife I mean obviously she came into the marriage with her own portfolio she was already really really very very famous but you know whether it's kind of like chewing out the rest of the team 2012 or saying that Bill Belichick has no right to Tartarus been like this I mean she emerges in your book as kind of you know a kind of unusually forceful sports wife who isn't afraid to say stuff that her husband would never say I actually loved writing about his cell look as you know there's a number of women in this book who are strong figures starting with Myra Kraft in a very early part of this arc Drew Bledsoe. Wife Maura this goes on and on there's a lot of women in this narrative and I think she is l. You said she's not a titanic figure I would actually say she is a titanic figure. She has a major role in this dynasty and it's an underappreciated underestimated misunderstood role by most New England Patriots fans she has a lot to do with why Tom stays in New England for as long as he does and I know that sounds counterintuitive but their relationship is is built that way and that was really important for the long jetty of his tenure there I think that what makes her so interesting is when she marries Tom Brady She is a bigger star than he is on the world stage she is wealthier than he is she has more power and influence than he does and this is what makes their their coupling so amazing and interesting from a writing standpoint and it also is what sort of complicates things for the Patriots and for Bella checked but I look the fact that she is outspoken to a certain degree and she's not afraid to state her mind and her point of view I think that that's you know that says a lot actually about the quality of their relationship and it also tells you a lot about Tom and the kind of man he is the kind of husband he is and the kind of father a is I mean it's all part of that mix and you know she she's there and and she's real I mean that's the thing she has a presence in the dynasty she plays an important role and I can just say from my standpoint I was glad to have someone like her you know enter the story when she did. All right so this is sort of another aspect of the Patriots legacy that it's impossible not to write about and not to talk about once you've read Jeff's book some of it can be summed up in this clip from Saturday Night Live that he did Tom Brady at any point and struck you take air out of those footballs this man is a saint. What do you think you should do when he talks he does one can reach Super Bowl 6 if you include the losses this is all let you hear all that what do you think he's going to be the father of like Chicago so. Ducky we just want the truth you can't handle the truth this side of we live in a world that has bolts and so suppose you have to be inflated by men with pumps to do what you do you report about Iraq. You're about the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about it Super Bowl parties you want me on that ball you mean to be on that ball did you just like the ball I did the job I was told to do yes. So that's a pretty good deeds that are News Night Live take on deflate gate but Jeff in writing about this you go through a number of the controversies starting in fact with an argument about keeping defensive a hand signals a feud ignites between 2 products of that amazing college football factory known as was the in university Bill Belichick and Bill Belichick and Eric Mangini from the Jets and by the way the engine is hard for God to grew up going too far from here so explain what happens there. I'm just laughing I'm glad you included that quote from s and now because as you know I include that clip in the book because I it's just so great but. This all starts because man Jeannie who coached under Ballard shack in the 1st game of the 2007 season he accused the Patriots in the middle the game of cheating of basically filming the hand signals from the Jets sideline during the game. What's important to note here as a backdrop is that the the league had just issued a memo to every team telling them to stop doing that and the reason the league did that is because everybody was doing that this is not something that was unique to New England the league was doing it so they got a memo telling all the teams to quit filming hand signals and this was the 1st game of the new season and the Patriots did it in the 1st half and they got caught and they got punished for it and fined and you know check apologize and we thought that was going to be the end of it what was what was more important I think and what's really stuck with the Patriots is that at the end of that season the Patriots ran the table that year they went $160.00 and the taping of the Jets had nothing to do with the outcome of the game they did break a rule but it didn't affect the game then the Super Bowl comes and they're facing the Giants and literally on the eve of the Super Bowl the Boston Herald accused the pages of something far more serious far more egregious the Herald claimed that years earlier on the eve of the Super Bowl against the Rams in 2002 that the Patriots had a legally filmed the last practice of the rams which is called the walks or oh that's so much bigger accusation it's a it's a felony in n.f.l. Terms and everybody ran with it from e.s.p.n. To The Washington Post as if it had actually happened nobody really paid attention to the fact that 5 months later the Boston Herald admitted on the front and back page. That they were wrong that didn't happen and they never saw any case it was a made up story but even to this day people still look at that and they don't know that the that the Herald did that and they believe that the Patriots have actually done this multiple times I think it's the kind of thing when we talk about earlier hating a team that wins all the time it's part of that vernacular for the Patriots it's something that's in their history and inaccuracies didn't really happen but all of that stuff is connective tissue so the deflate gate scandal that came in 2014 and that scandal obviously got far more attention that's the n.s.a. As announced yet and anything happened before that and I would just say comment I think the reality is had it not been for the taping allegations in 2007 I don't think a flake what I got the kind of attention that it did in 2014 I agree we're going to jump at it I should say Jeff is doing to outdoor in person socially distanced book signings this Saturday in fact you can run like a small curl route and he will throw his book to you as long as you don't exceed let's say 7 yards he'll be an Elm Street Books in New Canaan from noon to 2 pm and bear bookstore in Derian from 3 to 35 pm for beautified b. And that is this Saturday Jeff is going to do this he will sign his book he will sign it as does all bunch and if that's what you choose. To take a little break it will come back we're not going to much time here at the end. You guys gain from this and that sounds. Like he. Does it look like they're going to kill things on. The become. Like. Support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from arts leadership and cultural management at u. Conn summer and fall in Roman's start now for the online graduate certificate in arts leadership and cultural management arts leadership dot Online dot Yukon dot edu this week on disrupted How can athletes be a force for change I think the people who say the politics out of sports we've seen have no problem turning around in having politics in sports when it's their politics and the devil Asia will send talks about the league social justice Council and how she and others are keeping the conversation going I'm collateral ground team join us listen this afternoon it came to support comes from the Community Foundation for Greater New Haven I'm Rachel Martin from n.p.r. West 2020 comes to a close you might be reflecting on the last 12 months figure figuring out what you'll take away from the year as we head into a new one Morning Edition is here to help Yes we get you ready for your day with updates on the news but we also help you understand what's happening and what it means for you to take a moment to reflect and listen every weekday. Was a weekday mornings from $5.00 to $9.00 support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from Connecticut voice covering the state imprint on social and on t.v. With Connecticut voice outloud airing Saturday evenings at 11 30 pm during the month of December on w t.n.a. C t voice dot com All right we're back oh very quickly one of bank account pastor he's in the studio making the whole show work and all that stuff and John of the mic pants he is the producer of this episode and there's going to be a whole other show tomorrow but I'm not allowed to tell you what it is so We're back with Jeff Benedict he is the author of the dynasty room a lot of time left unfortunately and that's actually a good sign of Music Show's been flying by really fast you know you can't do a show any more about anything without talking about Donald Trump and so that's sort of. Have to say a little bit about that all 3 of these men that we've been talking about Robert Kraft Tom Brady Bill Belichick But you know they have unusual ties to Donald Trump that's nothing nothing wrong with that as far as 74000000 Americans are concerned but what do you make of those connections. You know I think that it's interesting because there are different meanings the connections the 3 men have with him are very different Robert's connection is one that he and his wife Myra formed with with Donald and. One of his prior wives when they became neighbors in Florida and that's a relationship that was way before you know Donna was president or anything else and you know it's a relationship that was more personal and it was built that way both Brady and and Bella checked don't even really need Trump and still there with the Patriots in the Patriots start winning and Trump sort of gravitates to to them when the Patriots are winning he starts inviting Brady to all kinds of things in fact by the time he decides to run for president he asks Tom to speak at the Republican National Convention Tom turned down I mean Tom did not want to get involved in the politics of Donald Trump and you know despite the fact that I think Trump was you know saying things about Tom publicly to make it sound as if like he was a big supporter and then there's Bill who did something rather unusual for him which was he essentially publicly endorsed Donald r. Right before the election with with Hillary. By allowing Donald Trump to read aloud a letter that elegiac sent him. And Trump used it in New Hampshire to try to persuade New Hampshire voters to vote for him didn't happen but nonetheless it was a sort of interesting twist for a coach who doesn't really. His players getting involved in things that become distractions from football and so I do get into all 'd of that in the book because I think that the relationships of the 3 men with this president are you know they're not only interesting but they're important in terms of that period in time for the dynasty you know and I think for Kraft who as I say emerges as a much more complicated in many ways out mobile character than I would've expected going in you know and there's the way in which you know under a tippet when he was one of the former Patriots players who's black and has a front office job just talks about you know the way that the crafted kind of stuck with him and then you've got this guy these politicians president who says about players who knew him during the national anthem somebody run out there and tackle that son of a bitch and a lot of athletes is of color really really troubled particular bought by that turn of phrase if you can call it that and yes it does seem as though it bothered Craft 2 for because in fact he has a relationship with his black players that doesn't really fit that kind of language all about it bothered him immensely because that's not who he is and it's not how he thinks and it's such a departure from who craft is as a human being. And so that is why I think he was the 1st and only owner to come out publicly with a critical statement in response to the president's State about Collin Caprona. Despite being the one who probably had the closest relationship to the president of all the owners in the n.f.l. He was the only one who came out publicly and criticized that state and that kind of of talk and I think that that you know it shows you something about who craft is. Look the things that Trump did and said in his 4 years were very disruptive to the n.f.l. They caused a lot of problems they hurt people in the n.f.l. . They heard the league it was divisive rhetoric that really like so many other things he said were were kind of designed to be that and the n.f.l. You know obviously wasn't expecting any of that but it fed right into it and I think that you know the league is obvious you know very different place today than they were when Trump started saying that stuff for years ago so we've only got about a minute left obviously Brady is gone Gronkowski is gone Belichick is doing Subway commercials that actually make fun of his cranky hatchet faced image is this is the dynasty over you've got about 30 seconds to answer that question the dynasty that we know is over because Brady is gone and I would have said the same thing if Belichick and laughter of Kraft stop being the owner it requires the 3 of them doesn't mean there can't be another dynasty but the one we've watched for 20 years is now part of New England history All right so the book is The dynasty it is authored by Jeff Benedict Arnolds this weekend you should go to them this has been a lot of fun even though it's about the Patriots and I don't like them very much either and thanks to everybody especially John and Jonathan and cat Thank you. 2020. Is going to look very different this year with big in person events a no go and most people working remotely normally a Christmas party. We put everybody. Else to change how some companies are jazzing up their holiday parties this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News this afternoon at 4 support comes from arts leadership and cultural management you. Played a lot of parts of this economy the music industry has been stress tested what was already broken is really creeping in collapsing. Or trying to make ends meet and what touring world might look like on the other side. You can join us tonight at 630 this is Connecticut Public Radio n.p.r. And n.p.r. 81 married and 90.5 w p k t w p k t h d one Norwich 89.1. 8.5 Debbie you are Ella Southampton at 91.3 and w n p all dot org Support for disrupted comes from the Community Foundation for Greater New Haven. After the recent deaths of unarmed black men and women many people are demanding change including athletes this hour on disrupted we hear from Penn State University professor Mira Rose Davis on why sports have always been political and how it can be a platform for change I think for people who say keep politics out of sports we've seen have no problem turning around and having politics and sports when it's their power to Davis co-host the feminist sports pride cast burn it all down and every n.b.a. Star Asia will send talks about why she feels it's important to use her platform to demand justice when you take away the jersey when you take away the accolades and everything that may make a 0 since you have a black woman I am Calliope around that's after the news. Live from n.p.r. News I'm Lakshmi saying the f.d.a. Is on the cusp of approving the Pfizer buying take over 1000 vaccine in this country an advisory panel meets tomorrow Health and Human Services secretary Alex a.s.r. Explains the timeline for rolling out facts scenes based on current production schedules we expect to have enough doses to vaccinate $20000000.00 Americans by the end of this year 50000000 total by the end of January and at least 100000000 total by the end of the 1st quarter asr says governors will determine priority in their states with regard to frontline medical workers he adds c.v.s. And Walgreens will handle most vaccinations for nursing home residents and staff as more drug makers are proof for their vaccines or says the goal will be to make over to mean is ations as easy as getting your annual flu shot c.n.n. Reports aides are says he's already met with the Biden transition team in an interview this morning with new days are said he would be in touch with Biden's choice for the next secretary. Health and Human Services California attorney general have your Basara the back and forth continues on Capitol Hill meanwhile as lawmakers try to reach a compromise on the next round of coronavirus relief N.P.R.'s whizzer Johnson reports congressional Democrats are rejecting the latest offer from the Trump administration calling one key part of the proposal unacceptable House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer say the president's plan offers a lot less for unemployment benefits 40000000000 dollars compared to 180000000000 in the bipartisan plan they're also accusing the administration of obstructing the ongoing negotiations but Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says it's the Democrats who are holding up the deal at every turn they're delayed flights to the goal posts made a huge number of places where Congress agrees into a hostage for the few places where we do not agree the $116000000000.00 proposal from the White House does include additional federal aid for state and local governments and liability protections for businesses Windsor Johnston n.p.r. News Washington Secretary of State Mike compare was sounding the alarm about Chinese threats to u.s. Research universities he gave a number of examples during a speech in Atlanta today here's N.P.R.'s Michele Kelemen pale accuses the Chinese Communist Party of quote poisoning the well of higher education institutions trying to in his words steal our stuff and pressure critics to keep quiet if we don't educate ourselves we're not all just about what's taking place we'll get schooled by the regime he was speaking at Georgia Tech just weeks before a key runoff races for the u.s. Senate and that has raised new questions about Pompei as involvement in domestic politics Peo says nothing in his speech was partisan the speech was the only public event on his schedule in Georgia Michele Kelemen n.p.r. News Washington the Dow is down 157 points at last check this is n.p.r. Support. For n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations and other contributors include Merrill Merrill guided investing helps manager clients portfolio Merrill Edge dot com slash investing goals Merrill Lynch Pierce Finner and Smith incorporated both a registered broker dealer and investment advisor Good afternoon I met a buyer but these headlines the state's daily coded 1000 positivity rate spiked up to almost 8.7 percent yesterday that's the highest single day positivity rate since the spring there is some variation in the numbers from day to day but officials had warned before Thanksgiving of a possible increase in virus transmission after the holiday if too many people traveled or held indoor gatherings the number of people hospitalized with the onus in the state increased by 40 yesterday to more than 1200 the numbers have been indicating a resurgence of the virus in Connecticut this fall after a relatively quiet summer in a report released yesterday Connecticut voices for children argues that the tax burden in the state falls too heavily on working class or middle class families the advocacy group says those families pay a larger percentage of their incomes in taxes than wealthy families Connecticut voices says the most fair solution is to raise taxes for wealthy state residents and cut taxes for lower income people the group says any additional money collected could fund services that would address income inequality but conservative lawmakers have long argued that tax increases on the wealthy would prompt them to move their assets out of state it's $205.00 a matter wire a meteorologist Karen r.g.s. There is some winter like weather this afternoon we'll see scattered snow and rain showers and temperatures again are cool will be in the thirty's tour around 40 so have a heavier code if you are going to be out and then will break free from that show slowly over the next couple of days high temperatures tomorrow should be up in the forty's and by Friday will be close to 50 with the Connecticut Public Radio weather report our meteorologist Garrett r.g.s. . With n.p.r. You're never home alone hear news interviews and stories from around the world stay connected by asking your smart speaker to play n.p.r. Or the station by name. Support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from the Community Foundation for Greater New Haven working together to build a more connected inclusive equitable and philanthropic community now and for future generations learn more at c.f. G n h dot org. The women of the n.b.a. Gave the way for to me ending positive social change from denouncing the murderer pull into account steel to addressing issues like pay equity maternal health and civil rights this is disruptive I'm collateral of brown Dee later in the show we'll talk to n.b.a. Player age of consent about why sports and activism part intricately linked but 1st a mirror Rose Davis She's assistant professor of history and African-American studies at Penn State University she co-hosts the feminist sports podcast burn it all down and she's the author of the forthcoming book can't eat a metal black women athletes under Jim Crow Professor Davis welcome to disrupt it yes thank you so much for having me glad to be here thank you so let's get right into it I want to begin our conversation by addressing the role of activism in sports there seems to be this divide from some people saying we don't want our sports to be political at all and then others demanding that athletes use their platform to actually engage So talk to us about this tension can sports really be separate from politics yeah absolutely not sports or heritage political and I would really say that it's a false dichotomy I think the people who say the politics out of sports we've seen have. No problem turning around and having politics and sports when it's their politics and we've seen this a proxy on full display over and over and over again the same people who say keep politics out of sports don't kneel for him them don't put your fist up during the national anthem never stop the question that the anthem in a space of sports is already political never question the Department of Defense dollars that you know necessitated public displays of patriots j. To them an American Ira at football games and so the sports in politics are always kind of wind in rap together I think that you know certainly the tension comes in with people using that platform using that space and refusing to be just entertainers and the fans who fans and ownerships and models and all the people who just want to not be disturbed by. Uncomfortable truths and I think that that's really where the tension is in our and I honestly. I think it is par and parcel just trying to promote a false discourse because the players athletes have spent so long say it's not it's it's not about this or this is what we're protesting for or whatever and it doesn't really matter right like they can do that after they can do town hall meeting after town hall meeting but the critics of them are still going to critique and so I think that you know moving away from trying to convince people that sports are political instead of thinking through the Ways to have effect of athletic activism is is really the direction the conversation is to go in . Years from people say that sports is an escape or a respite from the kinds of tensions and challenges that they experience in their everyday lives and yet you have this book about black women athletes titled can't eat a medal the lives and labors of black women athletes and the age of Jim Crow 1st of all the title is amazing. But take us through that story that arc of black women in sport and in some ways how they haven't had the luxury of choosing not to be engaged or not to understand those political dynamics that as we see in broader society may not provide a space for black women to make that choice absolutely and I mean I think that the long history of black women's athletics you get to see all of the complexity both the possibilities in the politics of sports you see sports being a pathway to a certain type of freedom and upward mobility especially for rural black girls in the Jim Crow south and who are able to use it to get the 1st ever athletic scholarships for women in the country and go to h b c U's and you know I think of Willie White from from Money Mississippi who was the same age as Emmett Till when he was killed in her hometown and that same year that fall she got a track of her grandfather said listen you have 2 choices you can stay here get pregnant pick on all your life or you can go run you can go run somewhere run out of this town and so I think that in some ways it has been the area for black girls and black women to find a piece of themselves to find certain pathways but they have had to claw for every step that they've taken on that road they've had to especially as we move into the modern era they've had to demand and insist on resources and equity in sports and and you know equal pay and just the right to exist as prefer. You know athletes as college athletes and youth sports up and down the board it has been a grind for mere sporting existence and then at the same time one of the things and when the title of my book comes from is that these these black women are always like well you can use new symbolically raver all of this escapism or Goodwill or whatever but that doesn't really translate into my actual freedom or material benefits and so Jesse Owens said the line I can't even met a woman Rudolph echoed it right it's like Ok this is not going to actually feed me it's not going to give me a job it's not going to keep you safe from police brutality like that there's limits to this Althea Gibson echo the same sentiment when she said listen they call me the Queen of the court but you can't get a crown and so part of the story that I wanted to document in town was these possibilities and the politics of there are for the participation the use of their symbolic representation and the materiality and it might not be a feel good tale it's not going to be the tales that you hear in children's books which are particular vessel for telling stories of black people in sports particularly black women there's a disproportionate number of children's books about black women athletes that you know in 20 pages Laus them to overcome sexism and racism and do this kind of fairy tale Jane rhetoric story that never really considered or takes their lives after that moment which sees them existing as black women in America where they have to demand space they have the combat or a sure they have to combat stereotypes and they have to you know grind for everything that they don't get and really deserve So let's talk about that grind and how difficult that grind is for black women as athletes because the mention of the material aspect of that and I remember when Naomi Osaka answer. You know Williams were playing against each other and it almost felt like there was no win because they were pitted against each other not as athletes but as black women and to see the tear for Naomi of this is someone that I grew up wanting to emulate and can we be in this moment without people attaching the stereotypes about you know whether Serena was too aggressive Is she too angry that she intended a people and still being able to rise to the top of their sport and yet what we also know from your work and from others is that even black women who excel to the heights of their sports still don't make as much money as their male counterparts so talk to us through that of how they are demanding and it's why I think the title is is so important I can't eat a medal and how we still impose these sorts of distinctions when it comes to what we think people's talent is worth Yeah absolutely I mean I think that moment with my own means rain at the u.s. Open finals 2 years ago now is really instead of one year ago pandemic time is fuzzy. Is really instructive because in that moment you saw for a 1000000 troops you know being all the dick and Serena certainly about black women's rage and aggression very racist cartoon right from out of Australia that. Exemption dated her lips and her her face and her figure but the other thing that that did on the side of Naomi is it light inter it white entire Hearst's her hair became very blond and very straight as almost to render her victim right they they essentially drew white tears onto a nonwhite body and part and parcel of that is an effort to. A race the legacy of Serina of Venice of their dad of Richard Williams at that because when you're looking at people like Obama for you're looking at you know people like Naomi as Dr Who's whose parents literally were like watching the Williams sisters invite Oh let me put my let me put my girl in tennis right and you'll see just you know a few months ago they were there was a running commentary during during the u.s. Open where it was like look at the legacy of all of these players and then did not include serener in this despite the fact that we can see how her and Venus are change a game on and off the court Venus is fight for equity and equal pay at Wimbledon has created the structure within tennis that does allow for women to make as much as their male counterparts and that was that was Venus at the head of that movement and so I think that to the point about even an individual sports women black women are disadvantaged is absolutely right we know that there's a you know there's levels to this and the way that black women in sports have been able to make the most money is in individual sports a limp exports and individual sports like golf and tennis. And yet we know that for years to really made a lot less than her counterpart in sponsorship and endorsement deals which is where a lot of the money comes in because we don't have the infrastructure for women's bodies we don't have those resource allocations I just told you will the Venice was fighting for equal pay and so those sponsorships mean a lot of those sponsorships are grounded in racist market logics right that try to constrain what and how black women can be endorsed and sponsored and I think about this especially in terms of the Olympic sports. It might be easier to find Gabby Douglas briefly or Simone Biles But Krista shields 2 time gold medalist and boxing found it really difficult to get sponsored And so what we haven't seen in till recently is the ability for women within collective sports with in team sports to make their own. Push for for monetization in that way except that we now see the needle move a little bit like with the n.b.a. Which is why underwear needs to be but honestly is a testament to their union and this is one of the differences right the unionization the Union having a strong players association having a strong union in sports is really. Under explored but has allowed the n.b.a. To make many of the moves that they've made including a brand new collective bargaining agreement that is certainly not you know everything that they need but it is really one of the most progressive c.b. A's that is allowing them to get more earning opportunities and we've seen at least a summer increased investment from brands into the league and we're really on kind of unprecedented territory in that regard. That was a mere Rose Davis assistant professor of history and African-American studies at Penn State University we continue our conversation after the break this is disrupted. Support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from our members and from the Gateway community college foundation building a bridge to equity through scholarships technology and internships donate today and change a life find out more at Gateway f t n dot org This week on This American Life I was 25 years old this is how I sounded on the radio. And now true life adventure story is not good which is normal for 25 this is going to show kind of commemorate the 25th year this American lives on the air where stories of 25 year olds making their way in the world. Was on Saturday afternoon at one. If you're almost certain. That someone is about to do a very bad day which you do you have the. Taint around for something to happen. The next step judgment find out. Judgment. About this. Wasn't Saturday afternoon it to support for expanded reporting on the issues facing Connecticut's Latino community comes from report for America an initiative of the Ground Truth Project with local leadership support from Access Health Connecticut small business and the Hoffman Auto Group Welcome back to disrupted I'm collateral a brown Dean later in the hour we hear from w. N.b.a. Star Asia Wilson and what it means to use her platform for social change but now we're back with the mirror Rose Davis assistant professor of history and African-American studies at Penn State University she's also co-host of the feminist sports podcast burn it all down asked perfessor Davis about all the corporate sponsorship that's flooded in and how they've moved from punishing athletes are speaking out to now encouraging it but what's actually being done to invest and change and what's different about the influence of players and this moment is a mere Rose Davis. I think that what we see have seen in the past few months the summer of 2020 the intersection of cove it the movement for black law of you know pandemic and experts returning has really created a new environment for which athletic athletic activism can survive in so if we think about the history of after that activism you know Dr Harry Edwards talks about it in waves and this is what he considers the 4th wave I see as you know not I'd agree with that but I think that perhaps the other way to think about it is athletes like many of us consider themselves part of the Trayvon generation ray those the Miami he done hoodies after Trayvon was murder and it really was where I go back to to look at what the growth has been over the years but even considering that we can look at 2060 Ray and we can look at the work that the w n b was doing months before Congress when it took any where they were wearing protests shirts they were taking over press conferences and refusing to answer questions unless add to do with police brutality these actions were really below the radar and in fact the league tried to find them they tried to find them $500.00 for every protest shirt they warn the players did not back down the players were refusing to do this I just had a panel back on and off of activism with that included to Charles to be n.b.a. Legend and she was very vocal 4 years ago to say hey you have all this energy for breast cancer awareness you have all this energy for pride which we support and believe we have all this energy for you know these programs but not for police reality not to talk about systemic racism and the players really push the w. And do you see that evolving the next season the w n.b.a. Announced a take a c Take a stand initiative where proceeds for every ticket sale went to one. There 5000 organizations those partner organizations were not you know that Planned Parenthood was one of them right they were afraid of controversy but none of them specifically addressed the needs of black women or their concerns around police brutality or you know anything like that and so you could see that it was really this dance of like how much can we give without jumping a live I think on the other side again 4 years ago when Collins happening took a knee and at that point that was really disruptive in terms of the way it spread but also the reaction to it now you fast forward as you mention these brands are saying black as a matter one of the things that happen a sporting institutions also jumped on that bandwagon so it creates another safety net for athletes who might have been preparing is or who were hesitant to speak out who who weren't as in a position to do as much but that that symbolic gesture of kneeling has even been a bit watered down because you have owners nearly hate you have you know you have a appropriated in this sense and I think that that's really. Important to watch the evolution of the w. On this because the players have forced the league into action and they have on the other side of things what you see is this kind of gap between performing just performative gestures where the conversation about why do we even need pandemics words like you know what are we doing here the leagues are like what do we need to do to still get them into the bubble or into the wobble or back to the feel right so say hey where Vo on your shirt or paint your courts that say black lives better do this or do that. Was a gesture with the dubby n.b.a. Did and why you know I I believe that they have played such a blueprint for this is they collectively decided to dedicate the season to say her name and specifically to Briana Taylor. And it came with action they saw black women who were victims of state sanctioned violence in place but ality as a racist from the dominant narrative about this moment they saw these women as them because as a black woman they understood very keenly what it was like to be a racist and they dedicated their season to up lifting these narratives but they did the work they met with Kimberly Crenshaw and tried to dig through what in their sexuality really was right they had zing calls with Sandra when sister and got their stories in captured their humanity in their personhood from their families from those who knew them before they were trending topic or rain and then they disrupted play so they're like cool that's cute play in the court that's that's cute but we're actually going to stop playing and we're going to tell you right here right now about the life of Jefferson we're going to tell you about Ricky a boy we're going to tell you about training games we're going to lift up these stories we're going to donate to these foundations we're going to make sure they're front and center and we're going to not relent on that action and then moreover you saw as they moved into you know electoral politics one of their. Co owner of the drain tried to publicly use them as you know political. Props and prove that she could discipline this like black queer league that she was involved in instead of going back and forth with her which they start was to her benefit she was right in the polls every time she did that they were like let's vet her opponents let's find who was. Ample amplify our values and indorse them and they took this like you know vote a step further because they're like voting is actually not harm medication if you're voting for somebody that's harmful and so they were not sure if they just said vote but specifically vote Warneke re they have a lot of publicity to his campaign and then you see the Seattle Storm fully endorsing a presidential candidate as you know as an entity and I think that these things are really unprecedented move think of bout decisive action and how how it's done and I think that we can see the gaps in the other areas when. The n.b.a. After the you know very brief wildcat strike. Was like Ok out of this we're going to have a social justice Council which the w.r.t. Had where they say Ok We're going to use these places as voting centers these arenas a lot of those fell through. Or they announced new partnerships like them Miami he announced a partnership with Miami Dade County p.d. To invest in the escalation training which is just giving more money to a police department that r.t. Has a budget of over $800000.00 and I think that those things are not quite in line with what the ass of the players were. In the way the because of their really strong union in their collective action have been able to push the league beyond these performance gestures and insist that there is a next step so we've just come through an incredibly contentious election we are in the middle of ongoing questions about how long this pandemic. Alas what different aspects of our lives will look like as we go through it and as you said this question about pandemic sports and what comes next but what you've just done is highlighted the sense of power and agency of these women athletes who said you don't get to define me I define not just myself but really collectively this platform are you hopeful that this awakening of others that has been centered on the long labor and commitment of black women athletes will be this catalyst for change. And I hope for. You know I am. I find hope in their actions. I find hope in in grassroots activism I find hope on in people in the streets I find I find hope in the people right I am under no dissolute in that these structures that were you know fighting games and they're fighting and whatever are just going to yield like I see many of these games only see leagues in the n.f.l. As a great we're going to pet hate and racism in the end Ok that solved it thanks. When that happens I really see it as this sense of like how much can we give with our protecting all of the rest of the assets and resources and stuff like that so I tend to look at a lot of that cynically but what gives me hope are the ones who are unrelenting and . You know I wrote about this in a piece for bass media about refusal coming off the heels of the wildcat strike when people are trying to play and there are conversations like Ok well does that mean anything then and part of what I want to highly is that the playing is also a sense of refuse on that they refused to disappear they refused to go away they refused to shut up they refused to cede any ground that they stand on and I think that to me there is a certain hope within their I dassent. There's that just realize I inverted the audacity of hope but but that it's true right when you see somebody say hey I'm not here to just be inspiration porn for like new no young girls that you are trying to be like this is women and whatever when you have people according and saying no this is me I am a black woman right when you have Lasik lead and say I'm non-binary when he of people a woman in the day and be a saying like this is who we are unapologetically and we are going to do our job we're going to demand equity in it were. We are going to reach out because we know that we don't have all the answers so we're going to reach out to activists we're going to reach out to politicians we're going to you know reach out and run our own foundations we're going to have players who say I'm not going to play I think it's a distraction I'm going to go work on criminal justice reform I'm going to go work on social justice in in the city is gun violence prevention I'm going to do that and you have the collective the league saying we got you we see that as an extension of us and not. This kind of feeling like you're distracting you not committed to the game and I think that they're making space for that model of collective effort activism and it's really in the collective because individuals have you know we see that individuals can be certainly disruptive but we also see the precarity of that disruption we see that with Callie and we've seen that with air grade we've seen that with unknown people who've gotten cut that we. Even lose sight of but the the power of the collective I think was what was on display the summer. And I think that that's the energy going forward and I think that that is the energy that gives me. Anything approximate to help. And and I would be remiss if I didn't say that their visibility their increased visibility. Contributes to that in a time where. Just take it full circle go back to your 1st question critics who look at like the low numbers of the n.b.a. And say oh go walkies go broke in this is what happens when 1st of all obviously lies damn lies and statistics everybody everybody viewership is down except for. N.b.a. Whose finals viewing went up 15 percent the national and soccer league that went up 400 percent you know because all of a sudden you can access and see their games and not even all of them they weren't even on like good channels and they still had that type of growth in so that is also something to behold is that. The w n.b.a. And the black women especially with within the n.b.a. In the way Al is and we. Have not only said this is who we are and we are unapologetic about who we are and we're pushing for with that and have and made their league get behind them so that from 4 years to now you have actually league imperatives aligned with this but they told sponsors the same thing with we're not going to shrink it in pink it we're not going to have long ponytails we're not going to do this and sponsors have now fallen in light and they have many . Brands come to them on their terms and increased their platform and that is certainly a sight to behold and I didn't think that would happen so the vacuum happened then I do have hope with them leading the way I mean a rose Davis is assistant professor of history and African-American studies at Penn State University she co-host the feminist sports pack cast burn it all down and is author of the forthcoming book can't eat a metal the lives and labors of black women athletes in the age of Jim Crow and marathon Q So much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. And. For Justice. This is just. Thanks to Connecticut Public Radio support comes from the office of the state historian of Connecticut this holiday you can give the gift of Connecticut history with the new book Creating Connecticut critical moments that shape the great state details at c t history dot org. Civil rights groups are calling on President elect to appoint more black people to top positions in his administration but the head of the. Also immigrating to the United States. Will talk with the stars of the new film. That's next time. I'm a Jew Martin from n.p.r. As 2020 comes to a close you might be reflecting on the last 12 months figure figuring out what you'll take away from the year as we head into a new and Morning Edition is here to help Yes we get you ready for your day with updates on the news but we also help you understand what's happening and what it means for you to take a moment to reflect and listen every weekday. Was a weekday mornings from $5.00 to $9.00 support for Connecticut Public Radio comes from the Community Foundation for greater Newhaven working together to build a more connected inclusive equitable and philanthropic community now and for future generations learn more at c f g n h dot org Welcome back to disrupted I'm collateral of brown Dean this hour we're talking about the role of activism in sports Asia Wilson was recently named to Debbie N.B.A.'s Most Valuable Player she plays of the Las Vegas aces and as a member of the leak social justice Council she hasn't been shy about using her platform to demand change Asia Wilson welcome to disrupted thank you so much for having me now you have distinguish yourself as a for middle athlete since your time in South Carolina but you were also a number one draft pick in 2018 and now just 2 years later you're now the league's m.v.p. But all this work that you do on the court is matched by the work that you're doing off the court and through the league with social justice Tell us about the motivation what makes you want to tackle issues of social justice Yeah I mean I mean my number one is just has to be that and I always say this when you take away the jersey when you take away the. And everything that may make Asia will you have a black woman that's what the 1st thing people see if they do not know me if I'm not a uniform and I'm not putting a ball into a hoop. As it's the life that I live in and when I hear these stories and I Washington new isn't and on Twitter or social I see it as honestly think that it could be my mom it could be my dad it could be my boyfriend my brother and it could also be me so that was something that really connected with me so quickly and I mean at a young gays of course you see it is not like all of the Son 2020 is police brutality you know this is been something that we've been living on for years and it's just as I got older I knew that I wanted to make a difference and when I'm in a and I'm so grateful to be in a league that is so open to us doing our own thing in standing up for what we believe in it how unified we really are as a Reagan and when you have a league like that you just it gives you that comfort that you can push and use your platform in a in a better way than what you're using as just playing a e.s.p.n. But letting things be known and that's something that's key that's the reason why and what it's been a social justice Council is just to help you know use our platform in a positive way and to bring light to things that people brush underneath the rug or just turn the turn the other cheek to one of the things about this year that has been so important is as you mentioned this isn't new these challenges these issues that deep seated inequality did not happen just because of 2020 but for some people they're suddenly waking up to that reality that as you mention has been the lived experience was it something about growing up in South Carolina that made you aware of these issues in a different way that you can now carry with you as a player in the leap or is just sort of an overall awareness of struggle and the United States I think if it is a mixture of both I have to credit my parents they went out on a on a limb I guess you could say and they said it's a private school where it was only maybe 10 percent black in it that it's maybe like 3 percent. Black woman and black girl. Rose And so they really kind of then and I went to my private school for 1st the top grade like I loved it and I'm not going to take away from any really helped mold me into the person I am today but I think doing that opened my eyes to a lot of different things that I probably would have never noticed growing up like I had the how no I guess you I have friends that were white and I maybe can go over to the house because I was black I experienced that like we all per probably have and I think it opened to open my eyes at a young age which then allow me to open myself up to just being more aware and I think growing up and when my name started to get a little way to it in South Carolina and everyone just knew this basketball player My parents were always to always be aware your surroundings always you know look after your the people that are coming up around you because you just don't know and I didn't really think of anything you didn't think of Muslim like Ok they're just the parents but then as I got older I was like they were there was just saying that for the good of their health they were saying that because they knew that people some people saw me as a threat some people just did not like me because of this color of my skin and growing up in South Carolina where it is you see Confederate flags very often you see that deep rooted deep seated like you said racism it was hard but you know I hate to say that I just grew up along with it and I just quit with the flow but you know I just became more aware of what what the real world is and being an athlete you get caught up in your own little bubble you're in this world is college you're untouchable because people see with something but any kind of inside of the real world in being aware of it sooner you are aware of it you see the real world and how nasty and cruel it really is let's talk about that because it would be easy in this year where there's so much uncertainty where women athletes already are paid less than their male counterparts it would be easy to stay in that bubble and just stick to basketball or. Stick to honing your talent but you when other members of the league said that's not enough and you're now part of this social justice Council of using the platforms that you have to really push for change talk to us about why it's important for that council to exist and what you hope to accomplish Yeah I mean it's funny that you do you say to counter the council is literally like a laser clear to text me and I was I guess I'm in for it because I knew I wanted to be a part of history I knew that when I'm in a league that is predominately black black women I always say they were a double minority because it's like Ok 'd we're a woman but then that that word a black woman and so I just really wanted to help the younger generation I wanted to use my platform in a way that I'm like you know what I'm going to stand up for what I believe in no matter what and I remember always saying you know we know changes are going to happen overnight but if we just plant seeds that is making a difference that is bringing change I'm so sorry about my puppy but that is that is that is bringing unchanged you know what we want and I think that kind of helped us in the bubble where we were unified it was the holy unified together in unity standing up for what we believed in and for a great cause at that so it wasn't easy and like he said we always get the short end of the stick and they goes to show how elite and how just boss women we truly are deep deep down inside like yes we can run a banana quarter put a volunteer who but at the same time we're business women we have our foundations we stand up what we believe in we used our platforms for the good of our own people in our community and were moms on top of that we have some women that are in our early mom so I think that just goes to show how much we really care and how much we want to bring a difference and change within this 'd world and when you had that city funny you really can't you can't go look past. Part of planting the seeds and seeing them come into growth is also nourishing that soil and so you and the council have done that by looking to the wise counsel of women who have charted this path people like Professor Ken really Crenshaw or Elisia Garcia and rock hell Wilson why even in this moment where people are talking about race have you also said it's important to look at the fullness of women's experiences overall the many ways that black women of trans women of other women's women how they suffer in this context you use that platform to bring women together. Yeah I mean I just I think it just goes back to our eyes that we just look at it it could be. Like no one is safe in this matter and we just have to bring light to it because you know not just doesn't diminish anything but when George boy died and when he got murdered Brianna Taylor did just a few weeks after and it's like you never really heard her stress like you never really heard her story because you know everyone's feelings and your story I mean I get it that that's that's I think that is just right the black woman always gets the shore in of the stick and we just wanted to amplify their voices and be a voice for the voices of black women because we're always the one that gets drowned out and if we do if we are using our voices now or the angry black woman so we're always getting hit with the stereotype and I think what better way to stand up and preach and be there and to show case these women then black women as a whole and as a leading We have Alice said within our league it helps us even more and so I think that is key as to why we wore the reality on the back of our jerseys while we have intro before in shows we always had fags or people that Professor comes up 1st Christian sorry come in it's and speak so because her voice needs to be heard and I think that is key as to what we do and I don't see a better lead that could do it the way that we can do or because we have women in there that could experience and I hate to say it but it's true but it's the life that we live in and the n.b.a. Sense it's inception has always been about pushing against those negative stereotypes or there's limits and stereotypes and one of the things that you've recently done Asia is to team up with other athletes for this Instagram campaign called hash tag seamy and you've talked about bringing awareness to the issues facing black communities overall but particularly black girls why do you think it's so important to speak to black. Girls and to affirm them in a way that they feel Same as well yeah I think it because it's like it's funny x. Of an article called Dear black girls and I really just put emphasis on he no the black son of the black boy gets the talk of you know you have to trigger your back in when you see the police he had your hands up to just be ready at all times but that black daughter that black girl doesn't get that talk eaters because they just take Ok she's a woman and I don't know how she's going to take issue since there or just because they just don't even think that she needs to have that but the black girls matter I think growing up you always see just little things that just diminish the black girl and then she grows up to be this woman with just trying to carve her way out of this hole and it's so much deeper than that and my biggest Asia started the root you know the start of that younger generation to let them know that their voice is so powerful that they're able to do whatever they want because I know that's what my parents instilled in me through and through is just to know that you don't let anyone stop you from achieving your goals and I think that's key and a lot of people maybe don't do that to their black daughter other black young girl in their life because of whatever reason but I think we just have to not just focus on the black boy or black man but also the black women as well because you see it all the time when something's going wrong as I go are black please praise them they're here yes here they're But then the minute we say something and the minute we do something we get criticized or we get knocked down or we just they might not even want to qualify as because our name has an apostrophe and it is those little things that are so key and I just knew that I needed to just as had that that circle because I was once that little black girl with the apostrophe in her name who knows who people say when I looked at my name but now that it's so e.s.p.n. Or now that I can put the ball or who it's good it's perfect but it's for that younger that may not have that opportunity to be that player bigger. I know that her voice matters and people you're still. One of the things that I really appreciate amongst the many things that you've done is this notion of affirming the power that each of us has right where we are and you say or wrote if you remember one thing from this letter remember this you don't have to be a Debbie n.b.a. Player or politician or celebrity to have an impact on someone else and so you are using your platform not just to carry out the beliefs that you have to honor the lessons you learned from your parents but you are also empowering other people to do that you're founding member of the more than a vote campaign to work against voter disenfranchisement How do you see that connection between affirming community you know promoting the many opportunities for people have to explore their power but also reminding people of the need to be engaged politically and civically. Yeah I mean I think it just it all has a connection of this being. Just a just a good human I think at the end of the day it's nothing that we're overlooking or it's nothing to Biggest nothing to small licious just being a good human all around I'm not saying the world is perfect and and it's going to be perfect if we act this certain way but just I guess I just was there like put yourself in someone else's shoes push yourself as a living with someone that has nothing and still have to supply for their family and still have to please their children and little things like that I think it's key once you I think once we start sharing our minds in a way that I like you feel sorry for someone and you just wish them the best and hope the best for them but then you put yourself in their shoes and it's like Ok now how do you feel do you think you'll be able to live life like what a black man be able to live like a white man or vice versa those little things I put yourself in someone else's shoes view their community in a way and then help in that way and I think the biggest thing is knowing that you don't have to be a celebrity to just make a difference I think people kind of think oh they have the money to fund this and give this away and start this but it doesn't have to be like that is starts at the baseline level and just connecting and just researching and connecting within your community and having those hard time that may bring those who sponsor raise hairs on your arms like those chilling chilling stories that we hear that needs to be said need to be heard I think that is key so I think that's all the connection of just being a human look past the fact of just money or just what you into how you're raised to put yourself in someone else's shoes and think Ok now would I be able to live like that and then you'll see that people live like that every single day in they they still may still make things meet. Now this is been a difficult year and we are dealing with dual pandemics of covert 19 of you know racial violence and racial tension and all of that can take its toll especially for people who live outside of themselves to be aware as you mentioned of others who are struggling and facing challenges and you have been very candid about the emotional toll that all of this can take on people and how do we break that stigma around mental wellness particularly within black communities where there's often this idea that you can just pray it away why do we need to talk about this now I think because it's real I think if we if you haven't seen it before it was for me to see if you felt it you've seen it now and I think that's the biggest things like the more you see it the more it breaks the stigma because they know be ill be normalised like you will see it more and you hear it more and like you said it is tough in the black community where it's like oh nothing's wrong with you you need to be grateful and just go pray it away no it's so much deeper than that it's so it's so deep that it's like if we see it more we hear more we feel it more and they know become normalized to us that it is like Ok yes maybe I do need to just talk it out maybe I do need it just a little help with my mental awareness and I think it just is better when you hear from athletes because I think they see us as machines I think they see this is just like Ok yeah you're good at what you do make it look easy so nothing can be wrong if you have all the money you have the secular age you're perfect but in when they really here are stories that when they really see him put it together I think it will go a long way in an ace kind of have suffer selection on themselves and say Ok How can I go about it because I know from a a for me it was tough for me to even think about that I just had the issues or depression in a way that I am because I'm like oh my god people in the world think that I am the . Superwoman and I can have feelings when it actually Aleksey I do but then once I start understanding that that is who I am in I share my story and it turned out that it helped me in that way that I said Ok I can use this that that's what's a help others so it's going to be tough to break the stigma of course but I think the more you see it the more you hear about it from real life stories and then that's who starts to understand it better in a way that you can then sell for factoring yourself and say Ok are can I be a better person and how can I take care of my so I think that's the biggest thing that I've learned I mean as a focus on myself a lot more for the betterment of me and my future and the people around me you know one of those tough lessons is that South care doesn't make you selfish it actually makes you better and make shoe better as a person but also better able to do the other things that you are so committed to and the common thread through everything you've said to us today Asia is this need to affirm our common humanity and the next common humanity can sometimes means that we're feeling weak or not fully ourselves but it also means that we can see in others the need to do that and it doesn't matter if you wear a Debbie n.b.a. Jersey or you're just sort of an everyday person to be able to do that and affirm that and others and so that leads me then to in our final question Asia given all that you see all that you've experience all the amazing things that you have committed yourself to do you have hope in terms of moving forward that the activism and connection of women athletes and people more generally can get us to a better place in this country. Yes I always have hope I try to be optimistic in everything that I do as I love to better myself a lot of that on the women around me and the people around me and I do honestly think that it's going to take some time it's not going to even be in the near 2 years 3 years but even farther than that but my biggest thing that gives me hope is hopefully in the future my child whether it's a son or daughter does not have to go through the same thing that I'm going through because it rips me to shreds when we were going through all of this in the bubble in my parents are saying that I'm going to the same thing that they're going through that means that there's no there's no change they have to be anything that step off is just now and people are even more bolder people are using their waste a lot more so hopefully it kind of speeds the curve but that's the thing that gives me hope is knowing that maybe the next generation and I get him to do what I do and work hard and when I do it have these men follow these people around me and help uplift that hopefully the future of the next generation my children's children don't have to go through what I'm going through or what my parents or my parents went through and those are little things that still give me hope to this day and there's going to continue to give me hope that I am blessed with a platform that I can use in any type of way and I always say when I'm talking to my that's a young group is I don't care if you don't understand anything and I'm saying at least if I just touch one person I feel like I can make a difference just by touching one person because who knows with them go in courage to do and I think that's key is if we can just change one little thing or just let someone hear a sound one little thing we're going to be good and it's just the seeds you just kind of plant the seeds and just pray for growth. Asia Wilson is the 2020 most valuable player for the devil and she's a member of the leeks social justice Council as a thank you and keep planting the seeds big. Thanks again to Asia and a mirror of Davis disrupted is produced by Gania Luna and Katy to learn and we love to hear from you how has your life been disrupted this year and what solutions would you like to see seen your feedback to disrupt it at c t public dot org I'm calendula Brown d Thanks for listening. At Connecticut Public Radio we love Keeping you informed your support makes that possible thank you the 2020 holiday office party is going to look very different this year with big in person events a no go and most people working remotely normally the Christmas parties are. Going to continue well if we put everybody on you know maybe just another of the Chang how some companies are jazzing up their Zune holiday parties this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News this afternoon at 4 support comes from the. 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