This is on point in cities across the us peaceful rallies and explosive fury Americans marching for justice and action buildings burning businesses looted and militarized police responding with even more force firing rubber bullets pepper spray tear gas arresting thousands and everywhere cameras cell phones capturing moments and sending fragments of a deeply complicated story around the world that real time coverage those powerful narratives that emerge from them influence our understanding of these events and of each other so up next on point what we see and don't see in protests crippling America now 1st the news. Why from n.p.r. News I'm core of a Coleman protests continued Sunday in scores of cities and towns across the u.s. Against police brutality several governors have called of National Guard troops in their states or have been peaceful protests in many cities such as Youngstown Ohio but other demonstrations have turned violent including in Boston Miami and Washington d.c. Where officers faced off against hundreds of people near the White House despite the presence of the National Guard in Southern California more violent destruction occurred there N.P.R.'s to all that psycho reports from Santa Monica. That's the sound of alarms. Visibly destroyed not long after George Floyd demonstrations near the Santa Monica Pier ended as evening fell this announcement was heard on the streets. That Alfie got killed 19 year old has who screws Mon of North Hollywood joined in the protest earlier asked about the vandalism he said he tried kneeling we tried it on the larger spend here I can't breathe we didn't try this crashed hard you tried doing it all peacefully Baron heard as they have done nothing for him he said the violence was justified de la police account tell n.p.r. News Santa Monica in Minneapolis protesters were demonstrating on a freeway that police had cleared of traffic but a semi tractor trailer traveling in estimates of 70 miles an hour drove into the crowd Minnesota state police official Paul Schnell says no one was hurt by the truck and it came to a stop the driver was removed from the the truck and was assaulted by a number of people and then I think upon a positive note there was also all a large number of people attempting to protect the man who was driving the truck the driver was then arrested officials say they're trying to learn how the driver got onto the interstate stocks open mostly lower this morning as tensions simmered or in some cases boiled over at home and abroad. N.P.R.'s Scott Horsley reports the Dow Jones Industrials dropped about 100 points in early trading before a recovery investors are digesting a weekend of domestic demonstrations over police brutality which turned destructive in some cases major retailers including Target and Wal-Mart close stores in some areas most Target stores are reopening today though a handful will remain shuttered after sustaining damage trade tensions between the u.s. And China continue to fester the troubled ministration could strip Hong Kong of its special economic status in response to Beijing's effort to exert more control over the financial center stock markets in Hong Kong and Shanghai it rose today after a more measured response from the us them saab had expected Scott Horsley n.p.r. News Washington on Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrials are down about 23 points at 25359 The Nasdaq is up nearly 14 points and this is n.p.r. Support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include Carnegie Corporation of New York supporting humanities and social sciences research arm Kearns and enduring issues details son Andrew Carnegie fellows are at Carnegie dot org slash fellows good morning and Lori Mack with these news headlines protests were held throughout Connecticut over the weekend joining nationwide demonstrations following the death of George Floyd last week highways were shut down in New Haven and Waterbury by protesters yesterday the scene did become a little tense in the Elm City according to the New Haven Independent some protesters started throwing bottles at cops and were met with mace when they tried entering police headquarters Meanwhile New Haven Police say they're investigating after a Molotov cocktail was thrown at a police department substation Police say the attempted arson occurred this morning shortly after 2 am and caused minor cosmetic damage the number of coded 1000 associated deaths in Connecticut is approaching 4000. And Hartford County has seen nearly as many deaths as Fairfield County which was hardest hit early in the pandemic the number of confirmed cases in the state is now over 42000 and Connecticut casinos officially reopened to the public today despite Governor Ned Lamont's concerns Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods say they've put forward a safety plan visitors will have their temperatures taken and be required to wear face masks that casinos have been closed since March it's 10 o 5 a meteorologist Karen r.g.s. We went from summer weather late last week to a spring feel over the weekend and it is going to be a cool day for the 1st of June it's still going to be very pleasant though you may want to have a jacket temperatures the softer noon will be in the sixty's so it's going to be a nice day to open up the windows let some fresh air and don't forget the close the windows tonight will drop back Sure around 50 with the Connecticut Public Radio weather report I'm meteorologist Garrett r.g.s. . What kind of show takes you here if for are going to die then why are we not talking about it it's Ok to if. You don't have to hide. I will have good progress secured but they won't be able to think. This is audacious from Connecticut Public Radio where we like curiosity lead us through vulnerable conversations I'm coyote Wolf join me every Saturday morning at 10 o'clock. From n.p.r. And w.b. You are Boston I magnetron probity and this is on point people have been out on the streets of this nation for several days now sparked by the actions of a policeman who suffered suffocated George Floyd with his knee and killing him last Monday the airwaves cable television and social media are being flooded with fragments images unconfirmed claims real time video with important context just beyond the frames and powerful counter narratives pushing back against official accounts So who controls those there it how do they shape the nation's collective understanding of this profoundly difficult profoundly important moment this hour on point the nationwide protests and how the media is covering framing this story and sometimes even becoming part of the story. And will begin today with Michele Norris She joins us from Washington she's an opinions contributor for The Washington Post and founding director of the Race Card Project and author of the Grace of Silence a memoir Michel it's so wonderful to have you thank you so much for joining us today and men it's great to be here thanks for having me and also with us is David Folkenflik he is N.P.R.'s media correspondent and of course on point co-host as well David it's good to have you agreed to join us to Michelle Michelle let's start 1st of all of with just sort of where is your head to today right now after experiencing in witnessing what's been happening across across this country for so many days now it's funny you asked me that because I was actually trying to find the right verb to describe how I feel and I think ribbon maybe is the right one I I'm from Minneapolis so it has and soul crushing and heart breaking just what's gone on there beginning with the death of George Floyd I am so tired of seeing black death on small screens with alarming regularity. And then to watch the city I love go up in flames and then watch it spread throughout the country and now throughout the world as people are taking to the streets I just. You know overnight they're out in the streets people are out in the streets in New Zealand. And and understand that there's no bomb that we can easily reach for right now because what is driving this and I'm not speaking of the outside agitators who are coming in from out of state to kick for their own nefarious reasons having to do with our own anarchy or or chaos or civil disturbance I'm talking about the core protestors who are usually protesting with anger at Abo peacefully for the most part they are seeking something that they have not seen and that's justice and they've seen case after case after case where these cases are not adjudicated. In a way that feels anything like justice and it feels like river reached a turning point where it's going to take cool white a long time to let the pressure out of here so that people will feel that they don't need to take to the streets well if I may I just want to play a moment from C.B.S.'s Face the Nation yesterday because Michelle Wesley Lowery a Washington Post reporter was on c.b.s. Making a very similar point to what you were just talking about and here he is every time we open our phones or computers we being all of us we'll watch another video like this. And then for years it's been these pleas from elected officials from policing officials from the media from everyone well if you guys just calm down I promise well we'll fix it we promise we'll fix it we'll have a meeting or have a town hall somewhere I'll give a speech that's was Lee Lowry a reporter for The Washington Post on C.B.S.'s Face the Nation yesterday. David I want to come back come to you in a 2nd but me show you just expand elaborate a little bit for us on on this because it's so very important that this isn't just something that sort of erupted overnight the pent up desire for justice that has not been met as you said we're in the in the long haul here towards some kind of healing. And it's a it's a maelstrom of several things it is it is the long daisy chain of names Trayvon Martin. Eric Garner. Chris I mean just that list is too long and most cases we saw those people expire before our eyes the land of still right there in Minneapolis so you have that you have a moment of great political tumult and let's remember that we're in the middle of a global pandemic so people are feeling economic uncertainty and that's probably the nicest way to say that their jobs have been snatched from them in many cases the same community that is and pain and direct pain because they're worried about their own safety in addition to watching these videos are also bury too many other loved ones because the black community is also in the bull's eye of the pandemic and as I said the the response to this has not matched the. Nature of what we're seeing it's not just George Floyd and it's almost if you reach back there's almost always what happens if you respect all the way back in the 1990 s. To the riots to the uprising in Los Angeles after the Rodney King riots if you if you lived in the on the West Coast if you spent time in Los Angeles you knew that ad had as much to do with Latasha Harlan's as it did with the Rodney King beating it has much to do with aggressive policing and battle and producing under the former police chief. Gates as it did with what happened so there's just tinder the kindling that. That has created the right environment for the fire of this time. And and we have to figure out as journalists how we examine not just the unrest but the roots of unrest so we can insert unschooled us and try to figure out. So David thanks for being so patient there jump in your 1st thoughts here on. 6 very difficult days in America I'll always be patient listening to Michele Norris our beloved former colleague from n.p.r. Is. And honored to join once more on the show with let me say this you know this is. I think Michelle has exactly right it's a question of you know where we point our our lens figuratively and literally what images are we capturing what moments are we presenting as not just a fact a data point but as a truce or as an overwhelming narrative where do we start the story you know if if my kids get into a bit of a fight or a tussle and somebody says she slap me else say what happened before that you know what what else should we know about what's going on I also try to get them to resolve it themselves but this is you know a much more serious moment it is a moment of it's almost too much to process for the public and too much to process for the press it's we have 3 crises right where where there's been this explosion of protest and at times violence against the. Accretion of incidents which we had to lay bare the fact that there are systemic inequities in our criminal justice system and in some ways in our body politic. There is of course the economic crisis not a modest one you know quarter of the nation out of work probably more and more to come. And of course it's a global pandemic so people have been penned up unable to commune unable to do things in and express things that outlets and have the ability to to say Lobby in person for the path that past few months about things that affect them including these kinds of issues So yeah people are coming out and expressing themselves and we've got a process as the press from what we're presenting to the. I'd like and you know journalist Art. Historians but we really need to figure out context journalist on. Sociology we have to figure out how culture works journalist and psychologist but we have to figure out how people are feeling and hurting and processing on all sides of this and you know and you know it's a part of the story themselves as we see it and we can talk about that more later in the show but ways in which they see hostility directed them occasionally by protesters but what we're going away and what more complicated we in some ways by people acting with the color of authority by police officers and one person officials in various parts of the country now well listeners we are talking this hour with both Michele Norris and David Folkenflik about what has happened over the past several days across this country and now in other places around the world and also how media is shaping our understanding of this profoundly complicated difficult and important moment so how do you think the coverage has been so far listeners what stories are you seeing on t.v. Hearing on the radio or seeing on on social media do you think there are places where powerful counter narratives are emerging and if you witnessed some of the protests tell us whether the reporting you've seen got the story right we're at 180-423-8255 that's 80423 talk Michelle I wonder if I can turn back to you because you said something many things that I think are profoundly important and that is the the obligation that we have to get at a deep understanding of the roots of the problem so in a in a small attempt to take a step in that direction can you tell me more millions start to get a couple of minutes before our 1st break but tell me more about about Minneapolis and growing up there and. Your understanding of of what led to this moment in this city Well I I grew from passionately 10 blocks from where this happened this is this is a neighborhood that I know very well when my parents got divorced and my mom and dad separated my mother purchased a house that was 2 and a half blocks from here I know this intersection quite well and most people think of Minneapolis as a a social or Vonna and in many ways it is Minneapolis to shoot me in profound ways because of the tolerance and the integration that I remember but what has happened in the in more recent years in the past 2 decades is that Minneapolis has actually become a very segregated city it has among the lowest level of homeownership it has. Many more segregated schools and I remember and it is racially isolated and economically isolated neighborhoods and it also has. One of the highest levels of police living outside of their community for the I think the number for I think it was 2015 only 4 percent of police in Minneapolis actually lived actually a 76 percent lived in the city 94 percent live outside the city and all of that creates sort of these undercurrents that can help create a situation like we saw at the corner of 38th and Chicago. Well Michele Norris and David Folkenflik Stand by we'll talk a lot more we come back this is on point. Coming up on the Monday. We've been trying to use the. Understanding of the medical research that. The covert $900.00 crisis we're going to do more with an eminent. Listen this afternoon. 2 men in a truck. The daily news cycle continues to expose how America contends with racism tonight at 8 public radio listeners from across the country will gather for America are we ready national call it about racism violence and our future together join hosts and Brian Lehrer with. New York Davis from Minnesota Public Radio for an important conversation in an urgent moment that's tonight from 8 to 10 on Connecticut Public Radio. Comes from the listeners of. Where the program is produced. From the music. For 50 years. Presence of music made on the front porch stage you can learn more at the music. Computer files from data loss and other threats whether working from home or in the office. This is on point a magnet truck Robertie we're trying to begin to get a handle on where the nation is given the past 6 difficult at least 6 difficult but profoundly important days in this country I'm joined today by Michelle Norris she is an opinions contributor for The Washington Post founding director of the Race Card Project and author of the Grace of Silence a memoir and many of you know her from her previous work with n.p.r. As well and David Folkenflik joins us he's N.P.R.'s media correspondent and on points Friday host my co-host here on point and I just want to before I let too much time pass by I just need to quickly issue a correction earlier in the previous segment of the program when we played a little bit of tape from C.B.S.'s Face the Nation I had said that Wesley Lowery was a Washington Post reporter that was true in the past he's a former Washington Post reporter he is currently a correspondent for 60 Minutes program 66 on quippy So he's now with c.b.s. My apologies for that but Michel I wonder if you could talk a little bit more again using Minneapolis as an example of how in moments like what we're collectively experiencing now there's this incredible. Pulse of attention being paid almost at every level to to unrest unhappiness and perhaps even the attention being paid to the deeper problems . That are being revealed but part of the issue is that maybe we're not paying that same amount of attention when people aren't in the streets right I mean what were there signs in Minneapolis. Obviously there have been beforehand that we should have paid close a closer attention to. Oh of course of course it wasn't that no one was paying attention I mean the local media was covering some of this that the University of Minnesota St Thomas their schools where they've been studying this sort of demographic shift and this economic chasm. That has appeared in this in this this part of the world really which was really known for being the land of $10000.00 lakes and an extreme tolerance. But there's also been a long chain of extreme policing most of it targeted at people of color black and brown individuals and there is a lack of trust right now in the police department and even though people a lot of people actually hold the current police chief in high regard it doesn't mean that they hold the police department in high regard and it's because of what they've seen what's. Still what should not happen in Minneapolis but people nonetheless. See that you know and in and in it it affects their view of policing overall and what's remarks are another you know high profile case and they see what happens to the police in these cases they're usually acquitted they see what happens when they look at patterns and practices where the kind of chokehold that not exactly what was used in the killing of George Floyd but in general are almost always directed at people of color and they see the response now to the writing of the unrest which on day one this happened on Monday night by Tuesday the police were already responding with riot gear with tear gas and with rubber bullets and there's a whole body of research that shows that. Protesters often respond based on the way police respond so they almost got the response that they expected by showing up in riot gear and a peaceful protest protest very quickly became quiet riots. Well I'm also wondering about for example and I'll be honest in 2007 I did not know about a particular. Complaint that was filed by a group of black police officers in Minneapolis alleging discrimination in the department there there's been some reporting just the past couple of days sort of digging up this 2007 complaint and in that complaint the plaintiffs allege that. That Bob Croll who's the current president believe of the police officers Federation of Minneapolis openly wore a white power patch on his motorcycle jacket I mean those are the kinds of things that should we should we be we have been should we have been paying closer attention all along Oh I would say yes and I will note that of the 5 I think they call themselves the mill city 5 among the plaintiffs in that case was the current police chief so you can imagine the internal tensions in the you know in the department there but this is a case where you know I spend a lot of time thinking about race and racism in America and when you overwork. A case of racism you know if this was someone who was wearing a white power badge that's up to the department should have looked into and and when you don't look into something like that and you don't address something like that then at the very moment where you need trust the most the community doesn't trust you because they said you let this pass for years and this tells me this is something about the culture that is accepted in the department so when the city officials. Are walls mayor Clarke mayor fried the head of security and Harrington we're appealing to people to to follow the curfew to stay home to trust us. Trust is earned and for some people it was hard to trust them because of the patterns and practices that they had seen within the department is why it's so important to us to to meet and head on and to control your culture in ways that you can't because otherwise people won't trust your culture at the moment that you need it well let's go to our callers this go to John is calling from Richmond Virginia John you're on the air. Yeah so you know this whole conversation about policing and talk about narrative thing during the protests in Richmond on Sunday what you have to realize is like you said a minute ago people come at it at the energy that the police will come actually and literally we were kneeling with their hands in the air and the police threw tear gas that at unprompted So they are provoking the violence they also use their cars for a minute people in their video of that on Twitter and not only rich but now that you've never part every weapon but in New York you have to realize why did these people come out here as if the war is on their tanks rolling down a street and in any other country they compare this to Times Square because of black people doing it the right. John thank you for that call David let me turn back to you. John makes the point and absolutely right that people are saying 1st some of them are experiencing this 1st hand and many millions more are seeing images of exactly what he's talking about whether it's on social media or. Television as well what impact is that immediate. That immediate spreading of those moments in those images having. I think it's huge I think it's it's you know you think of police departments as being the authorities right as being the folks who are going to offer an authoritative version of what has happened but time and again when we've had things like videos to George Floyd case. Just the most bitter recent example of that it put the lie to the official account and showed that the way in which police said he died was not actually accurate or fair to the facts and that the combination of the conventional press his abilities to put things out almost instantaneously with and social media is ability to have people you know information in the hands of witnesses and participants able to share that with the broader public it's very telling you know you had and a reporter of color for c.n.n. Being arrested live on the air. Plainly civil felicitous in fact of the police making clear that he and his crew just wanted to know where to go and police essentially putting him in handcuffs even as a white colleague was not. It was a very telling moment was to me even more astonishing with that the. State police of of Minnesota put out a statement saying that as soon as the journalists identified themselves as journalists they were released Well that was belied and disproved before it even happened that statement by the video that see it and then had been contemporaneously at that moment broadcasting to the world so I think that the power of video and of people to witness what is occurring as a check on versions of events. Is incredibly important and I think it's part of you know it's hard to know why this is happening and you certainly have seen at least 2 instances of seeming hostility toward the press right there is the defacement and vandalism at c.n.n. Headquarters in Atlanta which sort of subsumed in and. Antagonism between protesters and police down there and also the. Fox reporter was actually hustled out assaulted near White House grounds by protesters there but there's been a number of just almost countless number of instances in which police and law enforcement officials have acted in a very aggressive way towards journalists who are identifying themselves in that reporter for The Los Angeles Times who seem to be hit at very close range by a tear gas canister causing a gaping wound in her and her leg you had a woman who is a photojournalist in Minneapolis who driven up from Tennessee to chronicle what was happening who had a rubber bullet she said that hit her right near the eye she said that she lost all vision in her eye permanent in her left eye permanently you had a reporter for The Wall Street Journal who said he was hit repeatedly in the fat face with a riot shield by police officer in New York City another reporter while identifying himself that clearly as a reporter another reporter for The Huffington Post taken into custody and and forcibly arrested although clearly identified as reporter and this in these are just a small scattering of the instance around the question that arises although we don't have answers we don't know if there's just so much tension and anxiety that people are 2 x. Kind of freelancing and doing things out of nervousness or if there's some notion that the reporters are chronicling what's happening it chronicled what happened George Floyd and former officers are fired ones under arrest others are under investigation we don't want there to be witnesses who are seen as credible honestly what's happening right now I think there's a real tension there and reporters all protestors have the right for self expression freedom of assembly but reporters have typically been given more leeway if they are being. Assaulted or treated in this way imagine ordinary citizens who don't have major institutions like c.n.n. Or the Los Angeles Times or The Wall Street Journal behind them how are they likely to be treated when the cameras are off well I just want to play to win. How reporters some reporters have been treated in the past few days. Here for example is a moment where a reporter in Minneapolis described what happened oh I don't know what I believe from. Reading on my arm of conscious shot my window oh my passenger side window out the go I shouted as I tried to quickly turn and get out of their way my name is Ryan Farah caught a reporter with The Star Tribune. David also mentioned when a c.n.n. Correspondent. When the c.n.n. Correspondent and his crew were arrested while they were on live t.v. Covering the protests in Minneapolis and here is that moment whatever you want to us we will we will go we are just getting out your way when you are advancing through the intersection so just let us know we got you. Ok well I am under arrest. Why why am I on. That c.n.n. Correspondent Omar Jimenez being arrested live on television he was just standing filing a report. Michel jump in here especially for journalists of color reporting on this moment how are these these instances. What impact is that having Well let me let me just 1st take just journalist it's important to point out that journalists are being targeted all over the country and it's questionable that seems to be happening all over the country but also we should be said that no one should deserve this treatment being tear gas ever sprayed targeted with proper bullets. Stun grenades and you know a k p c c reporter was hit in the throat. With a rubber bullet and posted a picture of himself with a wound that looked you know awfully gnarly. So you know it's a moment coming out of this for for police for law enforcement to really think about what story they want to tell about themselves I mean I would hope that this would be a very introspective moment for law enforcement in America I'm I'm not sure it will be but I hope that it would have members of my family who work on Foresman for journalists of color. This this is a moment of vertigo. It is a moment of deep pain. You bring a victim of you to your work but you also know that you're covering a story that directly impacts you in a very particular way it impacts your sons and your daughters impacts members of your family. Because you worry about your own safety if you you know we've all heard about giving our sons and daughters to talk about how to comport themselves if they should be pulled over by a police officer so they bring a different lens to the story but also a different level of pain when you're a journalist of color and particularly you know for people who've been covering this over and over and over and over again you you know played a clip from Wesley Lowery who was a. The post now is it c.b.s. Who talks about this quite openly and because he understands the need to have a space for journalists to unload about this because it is so visceral and so. And so deeply painful and it's it also plays out in the way that our audience watches this so there is an audience that will watch this and will understand the deep level of pain and people talk about anger among the protesters I hope that people understand that anguish people are just exhausted and they're just you know their soul is hurt by this and there are people who will watch this and they will see the police in a completely different way because they're allowed to because they live in communities where the police are there to protect and to serve they live in communities where the police officer is a largely benevolent figure and I have like to get to a point in America where all of us could perhaps see law enforcement with that point of view I really really wish for that but for many communities particularly communities of color that is not their understanding because of profiling because the high rate of people being cold for all kinds of questionable reasons and because we all know that you know whether you're driving while black while they are jogging while they are birdwatching you know there are any number of things that carry just a higher level of peril when you attempt. To live your life in blacks in and and now practicing journalism outlet you know can be added to the list David we've got about a just a minute before we have to go to our next break here it has to be asked though in addition 1st the past several years we've had the president of United States repeatedly you know darn tar the the press as being the enemy of the people that cannot have they can't help in this moment I think it's inflamed and I think it's for those who are reacting to the the protests and to some of the violence that they see and not thinking about what preceded it they can embrace the press is just sort of hyping what they see as inconvenient or unpleasant or distorted fact and I think it's not an act and also the president for those years not only has gone after the foreigners but particularly singled out porters of color and tried to deal with the demise of them in their questioning and they're portraying particularly African-Americans but not only African-Americans and I think that that combination is sort of a bit of a toxic stew what it is turned out the public or at least part of the public think about the journalist doing their job while we're talking about where we are now after days of anguish and anger and unrest will be back this is all. When you want to hear the local news Connecticut most just tell your smart speaker to play Connecticut Public Radio. America's tinderbox is on fire with police property and the press all under attack what now needs to change we don't want to see what life has to charge we want to see classic unity and. As unrest grows across the country it's time we listened to you and Sasha and Simon That's next time on one day. Coming up this morning at 11. When the news is a matter of life and death you need reliable information which is why so many people tune into Morning Edition from n.p.r. News this program brings you the facts reliable expert opinions and keeps track of people across the political spectrum people you agree with and disagree with that's what a good news organization should do for you and especially now stay connected with Morning Edition from n.p.r. News. 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This is a point a magnet Chalker Barty We're taking stock of where we are as a country after many days of anguish and anger and up people in cities across the United States and we're also talking about how the media's coverage a profoundly difficult but profoundly important moments like this shape the narrative shape or understanding of what's happening in America I'm joined today by Michele Norris she is the founding director of the Race Card Project and opinions contributor for The Washington Post all also author of the Grace of Silence a memoir David Folkenflik also joins us as well he's N.P.R.'s media correspondent and on point co-host as well and let's go back to our phones go to an who's calling from Rockville Maryland and you're on the air Hi Thank you I just want to. Speak about why not Servatius and. I found while I was looking for articles to try to show me what was going on I noticed that in the American newspapers or I subscribe to one there were always pictures in fact I thought that it was only black people rioting and setting fire to the police station there were only black people shown during violent thing that night and when I had to go to foreign newspapers to find humanizing photos of peaceful protesters and 1000 during the daytime way before any of any of this violence occurred at night humanizing photos of. Black people in general and I couldn't find these in American newspapers I was like why aren't these articles being shown these photographs one thing making it to print and American papers it's not just black people that are out there risking their lives as well it many many photos and 4 newspapers are unifying they show people in Berlin out of people in Germany and front of the American embassy there chanting black lines matter I mean why is it seems like the American newspapers are most for pro-war rising in the images that they present because people are going to look at the pictures 1st you see all this violence and ugliness that night none of the unity during the daytime all kinds of people we saw officers walking with crowds of people there is none of this unity and an actually thank you so much for that and I'd definitely want to hear David's response to that and c n n thank you for your call David what do you think. When you know that the classic surgical definition of news isn't the plane that landed safely and so when there is violence and where there's conflict. T.v. Cameras in particular but journalist of all stripes gravitate toward at the same time I do think the peaceful protest is and sustained peaceful protest is part of the news and being part of the. Yes because the outrage is not simply localized You know there were other incidents leading up to George Floyd some of them you know importantly captured by Michel earlier at the top of the show that informed the reaction to this. And I think peaceful protest and sustained public outrage the fact that people who had been at home and successfully at home during a pandemic to try to slow the spread of this contagious disease deadly disease has had just sort of gone out in the public in even in states that have not is the lock down in a tremendous way speaks to their anger and their anguish about all these things and that is absolutely news so you know it's a question of how you direct attention a former colleague Robert Krulwich tells this incredible story of back when he was with a.b.c. News and he was talking about coverage of. The toppling of the statue in Iraq and the way in which did t.v. Cameras were captured just in these exultant exuberant Iraqis celebrating the toppling of the statue of a tyrant of Saddam Hussein and when he showed us that there were also cameras that were farther back that had pulled back farther and showing that essentially I believe those u.s. Marines had physically engineered almost the entire thing but that they wanted the Iraqis in the picture to make it look as though this was sort of an organic event and he said you know this is true there were Rocky's who were celebrating and they were physically there it is also true us on personnel were involved in the pulling down of the statue and the innocent creation of the moment that was captured for television broadcast and he did a story for a.b.c. Explaining that which is a very smart deconstruction fact and larger truth or sometimes perfectly going in the same directions and sometimes they try to catch and cut against each other a little bit because we're focusing so much on one element that we don't see the larger picture right and so where cameras are pointed. And what they choose. To keep in in the frame both literally and metaphorically versus what is cut out of the frame and the editorial process that ends up putting pictures in front pages of newspapers or on t.v. Well I guess what I want to say is is. Is that is something that requires a con it's a choice that's being made and I was I heard carefully what you said earlier David about that right now this moment may be too much for the press to process but the obligation to still to do the best to try and provide as much context even in something that's moving incredibly quickly is still there is not Oh absolutely and you know I mean you saw this piece and slate that the verge also did a version of in which they essentially you know there's been so many stories about the protests and about the violence that is ensued from the protest and there's real truth in that I mean you've seen looting you've seen people doing attacking you know the I think it was the the mayor of Minneapolis said you know mostly these are or perhaps the governor said Mostly these are people from outside and news organizations came in and checked the home addresses and actually mostly people are are from around you know around here sadly to say it's not just all you can just assign all the rest to people who are. Somehow conjured up from another place to make trouble that there's real violence there and at the same time which slate on the verge did was they framed it as you know. You know over the past 72 hours people across the u.s. This is the head of the verges story have captured what may be the most comprehensive live picture of police brutality ever in the sleet simile talk to an explosion of violence but focused on instances involving police officials want Foresman officers that is the same factual reports were put together in a different way to say you want to talk about a violence this is a violence about people with badges and both can be true and sometimes one informs the other and. For the press in just doing now only to find clinical stories can sometimes miss the larger truth than it really has to sometimes which journalistic outlets do if they do a point list approach the little tiles and added together you know small stories about the world in miniature but added together it adds up to a very comprehensive picture like a larger mural of what's actually happening I think that you know we have to keep going back again and again to capture these things and to try to do so with a sense of community and fairness while while acknowledging that you know it doesn't mean that everybody protesting is active in violence and it doesn't mean everybody protesting is acting in. In a way that reflects justice or you know Michel I keep thinking about this word that used about the anguish and the continuing build up of all that of all that anguish and I want to just play a moment from. From Atlanta because during protests in Atlanta last week some protesters threw stones rocks through the entrance to one c.n.n. Center of course c.n.n. Based in Atlanta and Atlanta's own killer my hip hop's star and activist he spoke at the oral press conference on Friday. And actually pointed to what he thinks is C.N.N.'s contribution. To how people are feeling at this moment and here is what the Killer Mike said. You know right here. Car. Stop here in Bangor. Stop making. Home a Killer Mike in Atlanta Michelle what do you think about that he's pointing out very clearly his belief that you know media coverage itself but not even interested in this movement but. For a while is contributing to why we're here now. You know we live in a tumultuous moment and so if you watch a steady stream of cable television if you. Look at your timeline on Twitter or Facebook or whatever you know source you get your you're your news aggregation from you would get the impression that everybody in America wakes up with their fists balled up every single day. It is very pugilistic to to take what Killer Mike said and reach back to. How David you know beautifully rendered the dilemma for American journalists right now. This is a very difficult story to cover because it is not a single story we are seeing protests in different states and sometimes in different areas in the same city that are carried out in a different way and so when you try to ambush you post your question was talking about looking in newspapers and the traditional model of a newspaper is to take one story one picture and that one picture in caps let's what happened that day and then there's are just stories around that picture is the thing that draws your attention in cable news often it's that one story that they're going to cover throughout the broadcast and they're going to have a person on one side and a person another side it's really hard to approach these protests in that matter because yes you have you know you have questions about policed access of policing but you also have in several cities police who actually took a knee with the protesters astonishing photos of silence where they're actually people in right gear down on one knee show with a moment of respect and solidarity with the protesters that are there to protest from these police brutality how do you tell both of those stories at the same time and that's one of the challenges that we face and if we don't get that right we will have we will contribute to the sort of the long tail of blame that will be assessed in this moment and we learn that for instance from past uprisings from even. After they can state shooting. The American public largely you know the poll showed they believe that the guard was in their right to do that because their view of policing and and a study showed that it had had a lot to do with the coverage of the moment so it's it's really incumbent on us to get this right but it's very difficult to do when the story has so many assets in so many different it's well I want to play another moment from this was from Morning Edition. At the protests near the White House yesterday Morning Edition spoke to a father who gave his 1st name as Shea who had come to watch over his daughter and shape told Morning Edition that he preferred that protest remain peaceful but on the other hand he said violent protest is an American tradition going back to the founding of this nation like America has been founded on violence and there's a violent place if you go back to that Boston Tea Party right will protest it's a rebellion so we're living in a modern maze rebellion and so yeah it's going to be dirty and those going to go against it but we're never going to 2020 rebel. Michel respond to that I think it used the word rebellion is interesting. If you look at the coverage of this these. Gatherings around the country are usually described as riots and I guarantee you that if you went out and actually talked to people who were holding signs were marching in the street whether they're doing that the quiet protester today or the more chaotic protests in the evening very few of them would actually call what they're doing writing many of them would use the word uprising they would use the word rebellion they would use the word resistance and I thought it interesting that he used that term to describe what was going on because that speaks to the mindset of what people are doing they're not necessarily there to tear up their communities in moments like this I always ask why would people tear community that community doesn't feel like it's their own in the 1st place they don't feel like they have agency over their safety over the degree of opportunity that they might happen life and so what they're doing is actually rebelling against a system rebelling against an America that has never really embraced them and that's what I hear of his statement David your thoughts. I think it's right I think back to I was a you know very junior reporter during the Rodney King riots and I'm from Southern California but I was reporting in North Carolina and there was a spirited argument where I had covered and a local event I think it was done sort of a Durham North Carolina Duke University event and one of the things organizers said to me as a reporter there is you cannot call these riots this is rebellion it's an uprising it's this and that and so I said Is there a way to talk about an explosion of violence and you know protest and unrest and stead of using the word violence to capture what's happening do it and the head of the copy desk at that time very tough minded woman said these are riots and you need to use that word you've got to do justice to what actually happened and I understood her point 9 years to their point it's that you have to capture the intent of what people are doing and you also have to capture what actually happened and what happened was violent and and and in some cases terrible and there is violence here you know there was a place I sometimes would go for a sandwich in Washington d.c. Back when I worked down there cultism you know its owner it was basically you know the glass was shattered it was pretty banged up and run from the pictures I saw and its owner put out a statement saying black lives matter she cared about the political import you know nonetheless you know they weren't people whoever did that wasn't acting against the owner of that particular restaurant it was just lashing out at storefronts that represented what was perceived to be presumably a hostile establishment and you saw you know tensions outside the White House which is the ultimate authority and those lights go out amazingly when the president was taken no doubt for security concerns downstairs into the protective bunker underneath down there but. You know it's sort of an and Mr record and. Expression of anger and anguish that's me Charlotte said but you know it is there to reflect that and it's also important to capture what's happening as part of the dynamic and not to paper over it either Yeah well we just heard about a minute and a half left in Michelle I want to turn this last question to you race is one of those core issues in America that in order for us to understand it to grapple with it all of us it requires nuance complexity space to be thoughtful. Patience openness all the things that are very hard to do in convulsive moments like this so in the last 60 seconds we've got do you have tips some pointers on where to look for that kind of that space I will try to be quick and I will answer for a tude to that list because it's tough we often focus on moments of race and subject of race when the training you know is at our back when in fact it's the wind that blows across our shoulders all the time it's always with us and so to understand it you have to understand it all the time not to lead into it all the time and you have to understand that it's not just for reporters of color that all of us are raised in some way we are honest answers it's a story that belongs to all of us Well Michele Norris is founding director of the Race Card Project and opinions contributor for The Washington Post and author of the Grace of Silence a memoir and of course many of you know her from her work formally at n.p.r. It's been such an honor to speak with you Michel thank you thank you and good to be with you David and David Folkenflik on point Friday host and n.p.r. Media correspondent David it was great to have you back thank you my great pleasure I'm a good talker Bertie this is some point. Point is a production. And. Legal Zoom allowing people to remotely set up documents like wills and trusts legal zooms a network of independent attorneys can also provide guidance over the. Legal Zoom. Serving students who learn differently with faculty specializing in. Degrees experience for students transitioning to college online programs and training for educators. At Connecticut Public Radio we love Keeping you informed your support makes that possible thank you. June 1st. Many Americans don't know how. I'm Ari Shapiro how. The pandemic and what it will take to avoid an addiction crisis this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News was in this afternoon for support. Arts leadership and cultural management you . Tension with China. Meanwhile in the economic background Oh yeah. There have been a number of exclusions. I'm a dispatch from the front lines of the. Marketplace. Join us tonight at $630.00. This is Connecticut Public Radio n.p.r. And n.p.r. Age 31 married in at 90.5 w.p. Katie Katie age do you want to Norwich at 89.1. 88.5 You are ally Southampton at 91.3. P. All dot org the nation feels like it's tearing itself apart this is your moment to tell us how and if we can put ourselves back together from w.a.m. You and n.p.r. In Washington this is one day. I'm Sasha and Simon today on one day we want to hear from you demonstrations have exploded across America and the trauma rage and exhaustion it goes a lot farther back than George Floyd the protests have been mostly peaceful but explosions of violence from both demonstrators and police have left cars burned windows broken and faces bloody from l.a. To Miami if you are at the protests tell us why tell us what you saw tell us what needs to change in America and how we should get there we want to hear from you 855361212. Line from n.p.r. News I'm core of a colon outrage over police brutality continues to boil over in nationwide protests some ended violently overnight with the arrests and fears Amy Held reports that in Washington d.c. The National Guard was called and the curfew inforced while President Trump questioned the motives of protesters Monday morning saw smashed windows and anti Trumper feeding your the White House the basement of St John's Church known as The Church of the presidents labor and Mayor Muriel Bowser spoke to The Today Show from Lafayette Park we recognize the before much greater demand once hearing out our beautiful city is not the way to bring attention to what is a right as President Trump is blaming the loosely defined far left.