And what she finds interesting about that is that she had never even heard of them or talk to them when it is the ambassador's responsibility to promote business legitimate as she put it legitimate business interests I want to stay with these names of these 2 Giuliani associates who you just mentioned who as we have noted are behind bars at the moment waiting because they have been may be out on bail may be out on bail right now Ok but it were arrested in the us. At Dulles Airport as they were about to board a plane with one way tickets these are Igor Freeman and Lev Parnassus since we have a couple minutes here as the hearing is on pause and House members are voting I want to play a little bit of a some reporting that one of my colleagues Ari Shapiro has done this is to do with Igor Freeman who says he convinced President Trump to fire ambassador venture cording to the Washington Post which says This came during a conversation between the president Furman and left Parnassus the other name that we're talking about here the f.b.i. As we noted arrested them this fall and when they were arrested they were a Dulles airport about to depart the u.s. Ari Shapiro my colleague has this deep dive into who these guys are and how their case connects to some of the testimony we're hearing today in these public impeachment hearings the story of love Parness and Igor Freeman unfolds like a globe trotting mystery over more than a year 2 unofficial investigators on different continents steadily scratching at clues and raising flags neither one of them able to see the full picture one salute was in Washington an expert in money and politics we filed a complaint at the f.e.c. The other in Kiev with an eye on corruption in Ukraine and I said that memo to somebody in the u.s. Embassy the 1st investigator has a d.c. Pedigree Trevor Potter is a Republican who used to chair the Federal Election Commission he has worked on legitimate campaigns and satirical ones like a Stephen called Baron 20110 my god I need a low. Oir Please welcome former n.b.c. Chairman General Counsel for the McCain 2008 campaign my personal lawyer Trevor Potter travel thank you so now Potter runs a group called the Campaign Legal Center his team scans political contributions looking for suspicious transactions that they report to authorities and in the summer of last year they found one a company called Global Energy producers gave more than $300000.00 to the super pac supporting President Trump when Potter and his team started digging into the company they found it was just a shell it was a blank slate the company hadn't existed it had been formed literally a couple weeks before the contribution it had no website no history of political activity so you were thinking this is most likely a company created to make this contribution which is illegal you can't set up a shell company just to hide a political contribution you have to disclose on the f.e.c. Reports the true source of the money who the contributor actually is Potter and his team wanted to know who was behind the company so they kept digging and eventually they identified addresses associated with this company in South Florida and New York so you take a look at the address and you say you know is anyone else given from a sure enough they found contributions to Pete Sessions of Texas who was a Republican congressman at the time he lost his reelection bid last year and the donors were left Parness and eager for a man so Potter's group all learned of the f.e.c. About possible campaign finance violations by these guys and then silence months later on the other side of the globe sleuth number 2 heard those same names left Parness and Igor Froman he doesn't know anything about campaign finance Dale Perry knows about corruption and the energy industry in Ukraine because he owns an American energy company that does business there he 1st heard of partisan Froman when those guys met with Perry's former business partner and presented an unusual plan what was so troubling was it was it was basically up. Isn't ation the intent to take the gas sector back to where it was during the on a covert regime so a place that would be a little more corrupt a little less transparent a heck of a lot more corrupt one part of the plan Parness and from described at this meeting was to replace the head of Ukraine's state run gas company another part was to replace the Us ambassador to Ukraine Maria von of it I have never seen anybody in any part of the world where I've worked and it worked in some 30 different countries never seen a business person that claimed they could see an ambassador removed remember the effort to remove that Ambassador is key to Congress's impeachment inquiry President Trump called you on of it's bad news she had a history of fighting corruption in Ukraine so in Kiev they'll Perry put all of his concerns into a memo and sent it to a contact that the u.s. Embassy at times when I was putting it together like I was a paranoid and going a little bit and us a little crazy that maybe I would say that after all partisan Freeman were not well known players in business or political circles in Ukraine or the Us financial documents show that Parness had a string of debts people who know them and say Freeman who was born in Belarus doesn't speak great English they both were born overseas they are both u.s. Citizens when 2 or 3 or 4 business people can go out and see to it that a u.s. Ambassador is removed from her post when she's doing a fabulous excellent job there is a serious problem with our form of governance the lawyer for Parness and for him and John Dowd the client to speak with us for this story but we can do better than that meet one of the men at the center of the indictment a less polished the c.e.o. Complete whole Global of the producers one of our colleagues Jeff Brady recorded an interview with left Parness last month before the arrests they talked about the political contributions from that company Global Energy producers you know this is actually the 1st couple tell you the movie star goes a bit of Asians because I wanted to get notoriety from a of the. Company actually might be a great way to you know have such play with the big boys as you call it he calls it an energy company but remember it had no visible business or financing more connections to the energy industry what it did have was a well connected ally measure a very dear friend of mine yes Mayor Rudy Giuliani President Trump's personal lawyer we have the same place in New York Washington Florida we take off together left Parness and Rudy Giuliani had more than just social connections Parness says there were financial ties to we actually met with the mayor of a business transaction company that I own back in the day and we had came good friends and such just searched on the town together the name of that business or the company quote for a guarantee fraud guarantee Giuliani told Reuters that fraud guarantee paid him half a $1000000.00 for consulting and legal advice and partner says he and Giuliani also worked closely in Ukraine Giuliani's actions in Ukraine are another key part of the impeachment inquiry I just happen to be Craney and I happen to speak the language I have been to also the sources and that part of the world Parness arranged and sat in on meetings between Giuliani and Ukrainians promising dirt on Democrats as president I'm not going to comment was discussed in those needs some of those Ukrainians have come up in the impeachment inquiry the team of Giuliani Parness and Freeman achieved at least part of what they set out to do in May The trumpet ministration polled ambassador Maria von a fish out of the Us embassy in Kiev and in Ukraine anti-corruption groups that worked closely with the us were shocked and it is right. Killing you to the to your back in English being stabbed in the back being stabbed in the back not right Daria calling you crunch the anti-corruption Action Center in Kiev and the United States for many years was our cue to Patna covering our backs but now we are at this occasion run Ukrainian rigorous and kleptocrats and some corrupt officials are getting support from the senior officials in the United States but she also sees the silver lining there are equal in stride American institutions which are party for democracy to her those people include the whistleblower who kicked off the impeachment inquiry and the people who brought Parness and Freeman's activities to light last night at a Washington Dulles International Airport the f.b.i. Arrested live carnosine eager Froman on campaign finance related charges as they attempted to leave the United States that's Bill Sweeney of the f.b.i. Speaking at a press conference in New York 2 weeks ago these allegations are not about some technicality a civil violation or an error on a form this investigation is about corrupt behavior and deliberate lawbreaking the indictment fills in some of the gaps in the puzzle that the amateur sleuths put together for example it says after the defendants made the contribution to Texas Republican Congressman Pete Sessions they lobbied him to help get rid of Ambassador you have on of it we now know that after that meeting sessions wrote a letter to the State Department about your Vonnegut's it says the ambassador expressed disdain for the trumpet ministration in a way that might call for her immediate expulsion session says that letter was not because of partisan Froman The indictment also alleges the partisan from an funneled money to other politicians and candidates from an unnamed Russian which means this is also a story about foreign influence in American elections for Trevor Potter the Campaign Legal Center who had heard nothing since he 1st filed a complaint about these guys more than a year ago the arrests were a shock to go from what we thought was I have to say a guy. Ardan variety f.e.c. Violation in a string of complaints we have filed to suddenly discovering that they were completely wrapped up in the White House actions of the Giuliani actions what was happening in Ukraine and letters from members of Congress on the firing of the abbess or is is simply a very different scale than we had understood Up until then in the in our work it was an ordinary day fishing and you caught a whale I think that's about right there are still a lot of things we don't know about this case like who is the Russian that allegedly provided the money for the campaign donations how much did Rudy Giuliani or President Trump know about what Freeman and Parness were doing there are photographs showing the defendants with members of the Trump family including the President Trump insists he's been photographed with lots of people I don't know them I don't know about them I don't know what they do but I don't know maybe they were clients to prove to you that there's already I just don't know at a more basic level I asked Trevor Potter how we should think about where Parness and Freeman fit into the larger web of the impeachment inquiry do you see them as sort of masterminds or. Bumbling executors of someone else's orders like how do you actually see their role in all of us that is the question I think because we don't know a lot about them they weren't politically active until last year so what is it that turned them on. And where did they get all this money so the question of who is behind all this is who is using whom is is I think still to be revealed but I would expect will be revealed. That was reporting from my colleague N.P.R.'s Ari Shapiro pointing at 2 of the figures lurking in the backgrounds of today's proceedings eager for Amanda and left Parnassus to business associates of the president's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani if you're joining us we are covering we are on live coverage of these hearings underway ambassador Marie Yavanna riches testifying on Capitol Hill except not at this exact moment because at this exact moment members of the House have taken a short break to go get some votes done we are expecting testimony to resume momentarily in this hearing room on Capitol Hill I want to give you a little bit of a taste of the questioning that has already on folded so far here is a minute or so this is do you know Goldman an attorney for the Democrats he was questioning you gonna bitch about whether she was feeling threatened What did you think when President Trump told President Selenski and you read it that you were going to go through some things I didn't know what to think but I was very concerned or were you concerned about. She's going to go through some things it didn't sound good sounded like a threat did you. Feel threatened I did I was so. I didn't know exactly it's not you know very precise phrase but I think. If it didn't feel like I was. I really don't know how how to answer the question any further except to say that it kind of felt like a vague threat and so I wondered what that meant concern to me Maria von of a church responding to questions there from Democratic counsel Daniel Goldman we have not heard questions yet from Republicans that is yet to come as this 2nd day of public testimony in the impeachment inquiry proceeds on Capitol Hill standing by as we await that questioning to resume I want to throw questions to a few of the people helping to make sense of this for all of us as we listen and just get a sense from from everybody in terms of what we have heard so far and what we are listening for as things pick up again Michele Kelemen covers the State Department and as our diplomatic correspondent has been has been in the studio listening to all of this Michelle What will you be listening for as this testimony resumes Well I think what we're going to hear from Republicans is a case they've been making before is that the president has the right to be concerned about about Ukraine because some Ukrainian officials had bad mouth him during the campaign you know that when we start hearing about 20162016 there is some want to shift the blame from Russia to Ukraine for meddling in our elections and the evidence that Republicans have brought so far in all of these depositions and the hearing so far is that you know you had Ukraine's ambassador here in Washington. Complaining about the president I should say though that you know trying to equate these 2 things is is very misleading because what the Ukrainians were talking about where things like Donald Trump as a candidate suggested that perhaps Russia can keep Crimea so those were the kinds of things that the Ukrainians were pushing back on now what should be asked about is what if any her role was in any of this whether she was you know working for Clinton or helping Clinton in any way against Trump during her time in Ukraine and he says she wasn't spoiler alert she made it very clear in her opening statement and in the deposition closed door she said the Obama administration did not ask me to help the Clinton campaign or harm the Trump campaign nor would I have ever taken such special Cullman hold that thought we're going to pick this up in a 2nd we are with you for live coverage of the House impeachment hearing we're going to take a quick one minute break stay with us you're listening to Special Coverage from n.p.r. 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News of the impeachment hearings underway on Capitol Hill this morning I'm Mary Louise Kelly and I want to bring in Susan Davis who is watching everything from Capitol Hill she's our congressional correspondent she has been tracking this hearing and all the others as they are unfolding I sirree there hey so how's it going over there how to how does this 1st hour an hour and a half or so far unfolded I don't think I mean the thing with these public hearings is there isn't necessarily a lot of surprises much of the key details of their testimony had already been revealed through their private closed door testimony and then the public release of this testimony and then this is sort of the televised version of that testimony so I don't think in terms of new details there hasn't been much revealed but you bet it has been a compelling witness I mean she is someone who appears to be certainly a credible witness certainly outlining a series of events that happened to her a career diplomat in the u.s. State Department a diplomat who has multiple other key players in this impeachment se Asian testified under oath to her credibility and standing saying that what happened to her was wrong and portraying herself as a rather sympathetic figure in what has been an incredibly partisan and sort of negative affair the question I think that you know people need to keep in their minds and remember as you listen her testimony is she's not necessarily a key figure in the impeachment investigation her firing that happened in May happen long before the key events in question namely the July 25th phone call between President Trump and the Ukrainian president's Olinsky in which he asked him to investigate. People including Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden and also the decision in the administration to withhold military aid she can not offer any testimony to those core of bents I think what is happening here and what Democrats strategy is with this is they want to establish that. Are firing establishes a motive that began long before those events that set a series of actions in play that show a willful act by this president on a number of fronts to take action against Ukraine that was counter to the stated foreign policy of the us to assist Ukraine including with hundreds of $1000000.00 of military aid in order to pressure them to investigate a potential political rival any theory that the president continues to maintain that Ukraine played a bigger role in meddling in the 2016 election than the u.s. Government including all of our intelligence agencies has concluded otherwise that that did not occur Susan Davis Stay with us and I want to bring to men a comment in our back end of the conversation our senior editor and correspondent on the Washington desk Dominik your takeaway from my testimony thus far and what you're looking for is it picks back up again well you know one thing that I think it raises a big question sort of existential but also practical which is who do diplomats serve you know are they serving the president's political personal interests or are they supposed to be serving the official u.s. Foreign policy that is implemented or started by the president of the United States I think that that has come up repeatedly and was very confusing for a lot of these professionals because you basically had 2 things happening at the same time that's why you heard William Taylor a couple days ago on Wednesday talk about how you know he would call back in and say has the official policy changed and they'd say no or I don't know have to get back to you and I thought it was interesting to hear of on of the talk about whose interests are served u.s. Interests or potentially other adversarial actors interests and I think we have a cut of tape of that. How could our system fail like this how is it that foreign corrupt interests committed Pilate our government which country's interests are served when the very corrupt behavior we have been criticizing is allowed to prevail such conduct undermines the Us exposes our friends and widens the playing field for autocrats like President Putin. Our leadership depends on the power of our example and the consistency of our purpose both have now been opened to question you know obviously Putin and Russia have a significant interest in Ukraine there's have a war going on between the 2 countries this aid had been withheld for almost 2 months and what these folks have testified to was that there was a personal interest of the presidents in investigating Barisan which is the company that Hunter Biden the son of Joe Biden when he was vice president served on that board and what we've seen is the president United States believing rumors that could potentially benefit him rather than the people who the u.s. Government employees are right I want to just get everybody caught up in case you have not been glued to every moment thus far this morning one twist in the morning's development as we listen to Marie your version of it u.s. Ambassador former ambassador to Ukraine Maria Vonnegut's testifying President Trump was tweeting at her in real time he tweeted everywhere Maria Vonage went turned bad he said she started off in Somalia how did that go and he also pointed out he has an absolute right to appoint ambassadors that brought a response in real time from the chairman of the Committee Adam Schiff and then Schiff I will just insert this little bit of news into our conversation shift came at a stakeout outside where reporters were lined up as they've taken this break that we're now in from the hearing and Schiff said what we saw was witness intimidation in real time by the president of the United States shift called an effort to chill Uvo Novich and potentially others from cooperating and he said we're going to take that kind of thing very seriously I want to turn this to another thing a talking point that we heard from the ranking Republican on the committee this morning this was Devon newness he talked about the whistleblower that he would still like to know who the whistleblower is that the whistle whistle blower should testify fascinating there was. Blore of course kick started this process almost everything the whistleblower said has now been corroborated by other witnesses but the whistleblower remains central and so I want to play a little bit of reporting that I have done pointing out that the whistleblower is a member of the intelligence community a community with which President Trump and his Republican allies have again and again clashed so. There is a long history of the president being hostile towards his intelligence community we've heard him talk about a deep state and about which Hans that is some of the context in which today's hearing under unfolds so I did a little bit of reporting trying to just trace the history of how we got to this place where the president doesn't trust many members of the intelligence community who served them I tried to figure out where to dive into the story I considered a dozen different places I picked this one I don't think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the d.n.c. September 26th 2016 the 1st presidential debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton I mean it could be Russia but it could also be China could also be lots of other people it also could be somebody sitting on the have bed that weighs 400 pounds Ok Ok but by then candidate Trump was already receiving classified intelligence briefings and intelligence officials were already privately telling reporters including me it was the Kremlin that hacked the servers of the Democratic National Committee Donald Trump continued to reject this conclusion and then came to him for and the election Donald Trump wins the presidency of the United States he is not going to be called president elect by the following January 2017 that president elect was sitting down for a top secret briefing tonight the face to face meeting inside Trump Tower it's January 6th exactly 2 weeks before the inauguration the director of national intelligence Jim Clapper along with the heads of the CIA The f.b.i. And the National Security Agency. Had traveled to New York there an invaluable task informing trump that they were about to hit publish on a report that said flight Amir Putin personally ordered an influence campaign to try to help him when he had great difficulty as did his team accepting the assertion that the Russians interfere General Clapper when I asked him about it the other day he said that while he had been apprehensive beforehand the Trump Tower meeting was actually pretty cordial but I do think the end result was reflected in the attempt to draft a prostate while we were still there in which they wanted to quote us as saying that the Russian affairs had no impact on the outcome of the election which we could not did not say we were chartered to assess that. It was a few days after that Trump Tower meeting and still before he had taken the oath of office as president that he tweeted the comment about Nazis comparing u.s. Intelligence to Nazis you were still the head of u.s. Intelligence then you were the leader of all 17 u.s. Spy agencies what went through your head while I was taken aback as virgin started about it so much so that I put a halt to this then preselect trumped amazingly enough he took the call and I tried to appeal to his higher instincts I just by telling him that he was inheriting a treasure in the form of the national intelligence community I asked Clapper to revisit this now in Sion history because it feels worth recalling just how poisoned the well between Trump and the intelligence community was even before Donald Trump was sworn in as President Trump because after that it got worse General Clapper I was heartened by the fact that as I wrote a couple days later the the 1st place he was going to visit after the inauguration was CIA Naive me I thought well perhaps my message got through to us. Not so it's this is my 1st stop officially his 1st full day in office after weeks of mocking intelligence officials the president's motorcade rolled out to CIA headquarters he told staffers there he was now with them quote a 1000 percent maybe sometimes you haven't gotten the back in that you've won it and you're going to get so much back in play we're going to say please don't give us so much back in so far so good but at some point standing in what the CIA considers sacred space before a wall of stories representing officers have died in the line of duty he started saying things that were provably untrue things like falsely inflating the size of the crowd at his inauguration we had a massive field of people you saw them packed I get up this morning I turn on one of the networks and they show an empty field this digression about his crowd size went on for a while ask a CIA official to name a low point in relations with this White House and this is one of 2 many will point to here's the other forgery McKibbin because the distinguished Mr President it's about them a ladies and gentlemen Helsinki 2018 the summit with Putin and the moment when all the bad blood between Trump and his spine Chiefs was to still to a single question from a.p. Reporter Jonathan Lemaire just down President Putin denied having anything to do with the election here France and 2016 every u.s. Intelligence Agency has concluded that Russia did my 1st question for you sir is who do you believe I was there along with journalists from all over the world packed into Finland's presidential palace waiting to hear what Trump would say they said they think it's Russia I have President Putin he just said it's not Russia I will say this I don't see any reason why it would be I think there that is one of the most. Tragic moments in the history of the relationship between the United States president and the intelligence community again Leon Panetta who used to run the CIA Panetta told me his specific beef is the message trumps words sent to the rest of the world that we're dealing with a president who has no sense of the importance of intelligence and important role our intelligence people play in protecting the security of our country to fully set the stage for where we find ourselves now let's visit one more event but all this year in order of like to welcome our witnesses to the room to 16 of the Senate Hart Office Building we're now up to January of this year and the current director of the CIA Jeanne a houseboat is testifying about Iran so at the moment technically they're in compliance but we do see them debating amongst themselves as they fail so typical dry a congressional testimony what was significant was Haskell and other officials stating quietly but firmly Iran at that point was in compliance with the nuclear deal and not only Iran but also on Russia and North Korea the testimony by Trump spy chiefs was jarringly at odds with Trump's own rhetoric so much so that the next day Trump hit back on Twitter calling quote the intelligence people passive and naive and adding perhaps intelligence should go back to school life thought back to that moment the distrust spec towards Housefull and her colleagues on full display as the impeachment inquiry has blown up when I heard by the news reports at this whistle blower's apparently. A CIA employee I just my God this is all she needs now John Rizzo he spent 34 years as a CIA lawyer do you see. An irony in the fact that given that Trump and the relationship with his intelligence leaders has played out on a set has since day one that it's now a CIA whistleblower that appears to be bringing him a country to the brink of impeachment Well I guess ironic is Mom way to put it Mary Louise. Yes You know honestly I almost wish that was a poor been from somewhere else in the government not from the CIA because as I say this brings the whole relationship between President Trump and the intelligence community full circle. And possibly irretrievable in the sense of the relationship being damaged to a point from which a can't recover Mia Yeah I mean this is this is the apotheosis of what could possibly go wrong even further fracture the relationship I mean there's no obviously not a criticism of the whistleblower but then there's the reality I fear complicating things further the inspector general of the intelligence community Michael Atkinson has judged the whistleblower complaint both urgent and credible but in a letter dated August 26th he also writes that the whistleblower has quote arguable political bias in favor of a rival candidate and that prompts an obvious question which I put to General Clapper is there a danger that the president will see that as confirmation of a deep state that is out to get him Oh I'm sure it does and I'm sure so what's the risk there if the president is suspicious that the intelligence community is out to get him what's the risk to national security well one risk is you know deeper skepticism about accepting anything it tells you he says which is profoundly dangers to the country you know a lot about the situation or we have something of the magnitude of a model of the type. Where you would be highly dependent on what you told him in control of. Whether he. Skeptical about it I think that would pose real risk as Jim Clapper the former director of National Intelligence closing on some of my reporting there on the whistleblower on how Trump's relationship with his intelligence community which he sometimes refers to as the deep state along with other bureaucrats. How about fits into the hearings unfolding this morning on Capitol Hill we are in a little bit of a break from today's hearing we have been hearing for. Ousted u.s. Ambassador Marie your Vonnegut she got through her long prepared and quite dramatic opening statement Democrats started to question her we heard questioning from chairman Adam Schiff and also from the Democratic staff attorney Daniel Goldman we are on a little bit of a break so that members can vote because they are still voting on all kinds of things on Capitol Hill as these impeachment hearings on fold but Dominican Monton r.-o. Is with me among other n.p.r. Journalist Dominik our senior political editor and correspondent and Dominik I want to just focus you briefly on one new piece of evidence I guess that emerged this morning the White House has released a memorandum of a phone call between presidents Alinsky and President Trump not the phone call not the one we've all been talking about for weeks but one from earlier from April 21st when we get it and literally released at the moment that the that this hearing began so we were reading that as this was happening and according to this White House summary of Trump's 1st call was Alinsky Zelinsky invites Trump to his inauguration he's really trying to sort of Prague trying to come to Ukraine because that would certainly geopolitically help Zelinsky show that the United States is behind them Trump said you know sort of brush them off a little bit and says that they'll send a quote very very high level representative and Trump invite Zelinsky to the White House this is something that has been talked about where this meeting at the White House something that also is Alinsky wanted to be able to show that the United States is behind them something that has been dangled out there and that others now multiple witnesses have said or help was held withheld for the for these investigations that Trump wanted done that meeting of course still hasn't happened military aide was held up for almost 2 months after the July call and Zelinsky talked about how the food in Ukraine is tasty and delicious tried to entice chum to go there chum said that when I owned miss. Universe Ukraine always had great people and Ukraine was always well represented as dramatic moments in our 0 one of the many n.p.r. Journalists listening in to this house impeachment hearing along with me I'm Mary Louise Kelly we're going to take a quick one minute break please stay with us we'll be right back this is special coverage from n.p.r. News support comes from Elm City Market in New Haven with ingredients for holiday cooking from kitchen staples to specialty items plus holiday platters to help make entertaining simple everything you need but mostly stuff you one corner of state and chapel. On Christopher Kimball for Milk Street Radio this week we chat with Vicky benison a You Tube star who films Italian grandmothers making traditional pasta by Plus Robin Russell geyser tells us about why she has complete strangers to lunch and Alex i news tries to make a 1000000 layer puff pastry coming up this week on Wall Street Radio from p.r. X. Was on tonight at 9. In New England the weather is always changing listen for weather forecasts for meteorologist Garrett or Janice during Morning Edition and All Things Considered support comes from Connecticut Castle Association. If you're just joining us this is special coverage from n.p.r. News of the public impeachment hearings underway on Capitol Hill this morning and it looks like we're going to make it way into the afternoon at this rate members of Congress who have been sitting in on that hearing that's the House Intelligence Committee holding this hearing and they are on a break so that they can do some voting we have been talking about one of the new developments this morning which is the White House as the ring was getting underway released a memorandum of a phone conversation between President Trump and President's Olinsky of Ukraine this is not the July 25th phone call but an earlier 1 April 21st when it was actually president elect Zelinsky of Ukraine and Susan Davis our congressional correspondent was on the Hill as this as this was coming out soon do you want to weigh in here on just what we learned and how this document may factor into into today's hearing and those going forward all the details in the transcript are not entirely that interesting they don't move the ball at all but one thing that has been flagged since they've released this phone call is normally when White Houses have the president to president conversations they never released transcripts right this is been very unusual that the White House has agreed to release both the July and April transcript the White House has pointed to this as proof that the president has nothing to hide what we do normally get from these transcripts is readouts of calls and in April the White House did put out a readout of this call between Trump and President Selenski and in the official readout of the call the White House stated that the President underscored to Selenski and expressed quote his commitment to work together to implement reforms that strengthen democracy increase probably prosperity and root out corruption now in the actual transcript of the call they put out today the president never mentions the word corruption it is also a word that does not appear in the July 25th transcript either the president never asked Zelinsky to investigate corruption this is important in this is something the Democrats have flagged time and time again because the right. House Defense and the Republican defense has been that President Trump was motivated by an interest in rooting out corruption in Ukraine a country that yes has had a long history of corrupt behavior but in these transcripts of the calls and in the requests that he made he's never actually voiced a concern about corruption although that has been part of the key of his defense. Michele Kelemen our State Department correspondent is also in the studio listening into all this and Michelle I just want to flag from the State Department point of view that the timing of this phone call it real 21st 21000 that is right around the time Ambassador you Vonnegut's was getting increasingly frantic phone calls saying you need to get on the on the 1st plane home right and we had also heard even before that in May that there was a meeting between President Trump and some of that his officials working on on Ukraine the ambassador the e.u. And and Kurt Volker who is the u.s. Envoy on Ukraine that they had been told to if you want to deal with Ukraine you've got to work through a lot work there Giuliani work through Giuliani and and that's what they were told by the president so it was interesting that as he said as soon as said that they didn't raise corruption in that particular call but we know that that the issue was not overall corruption but that he had some specific cases in mind already case that all right I'm going to circle back to the woman who is front and center because there are a lot of players in this Ukraine drama now impeachment drama but the woman front and center today Maria avantage u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine ental she got those phone calls saying you need to come home that was this spring she is still serving at the State Department she is still a current employee of the State Department our colleague Steve Inskeep has been digging into her back story what happened how she got here here's some of his reporting. Marie Louise you have on of each has testified before Congress before ardent members of this committee it's an honor to chair before you today as President Obama's nominee to serve as the u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine it was her confirmation hearing in 2016 she said the witness table was short hair glasses and a tan suit she had brought along her elderly mother like so many in Europe in the 1940 s. Including those in the Caribbean American community my parents survived poverty war and displacement they finally arrived in the United States with me and in search of freedom accountability and opportunity Maria wheezy of on a bitch is an immigrant her family came from the former Soviet Union it was a Russian speaking family and she answered to an affectionate Russian version of her name Marie everybody that ever worked with her numerous mushroom Carlos pass qual worked with mushy given of it because in the early 2000 he was the u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine it was a former Soviet republic with many Russian speakers so he hired Russian speaking of on of edge as his deputy this immigrant now a u.s. Citizen was part of the u.s. Foreign service she had already been based in Moscow she based in Somalia she really understood what it was to work and difficult hardship posts one of the key things. Where the foundations for civil society tamed check and balance in our government civil society that phrase means journalists activists and citizens groups whose work is vital for democracy you have on of each made it her business to track and understand them in 2004 not long after she finished her 1st assignment in Ukraine those groups made history as one of our correspondents looked on a sea of several 100000 people enthusiastically waving yellow and white blue Ukrainian frights into a bitterly cold perfectly clear sky. As Ukrainians displaced their government after a disputed election years later you have on of it. Returned to Ukraine this time as the top u.s. Diplomat the ambassador the Senate confirmed without controversy there were assignment was tough Russia had invaded Ukraine at that 2016 confirmation she told Sen She was open to providing military aid to Ukraine She also said she'd keep promoting civil society building capacity within the journalistic community within civil society they themselves can get their own good news out and they themselves can counter the Russian propaganda efforts in November 2016 the new embassador invited civil society activists and others to an event to mark America's presidential election Daria Kalandia our Ukrainian anticorruption activist was among those who attended ambassador was hosting this reception so for many Ukrainians that victory. Was a big surprise some were dismayed since Trump seemed sympathetic to Russia but Kalanick recalls the u.s. Ambassador delivering this reassuring message United States will continue being our your support of Ukraine and we congratulate our democracy and she didn't express any frustration or anything remember she's a career diplomat unlike some ambassadors who are friends or supporters of a president she served whoever was in the White House Ukrainians say she was professional and worked hard to represent u.s. Policy Natalia the man York had many dealings with the ambassador as a journalist she was a good diplomat but very very reserved so she was extremely cautious she would never say anything be home what the diplomats can say yet the ambassador made enemies some Ukrainians called her narrow minded and bureaucratic and then there were the 2 business associates of Rudy Giuliani they had business in Ukraine Federal prosecutors say they wanted to please Ukrainian officials who disliked the ambassador so they tried to gain influence. In the u.s. Government they allegedly made illegal campaign contributions and their efforts paid off in 2018 they donated to Texas Congressman Pete Sessions and sessions wrote a letter demanding that the ambassador be dismissed sessions made an allegation that was toxic in the trumpet ministration he claimed this cautious by the book embassador criticized President Trump showing quote disdain for the current administration Sessions has denied his campaign contributors told him to say that Ambassador your vote of each was not fired at that time in 2018 but worse was coming the Ukrainian anticorruption activist Daria Kalanick says the ambassador had another enemy basically Ambassador you've been a beach was a brand new or civil society in Ukraine and these just want you to sign call and owns or corrupt officials in power did not fly your lips Sankoh was Ukraine's prosecutor general and a vital figure in what happened next civil society groups called him corrupt they recently summarized their accusations in a formal complaint they sent the u.s. Treasury Department that complaint which n.p.r. Has obtained Sankoh is accused of enriching himself and targeting anti corruption investigators this made him just the sort of official the Us ambassador called out Hi everybody. Thank you and it's really an honor and a pleasure to be here to celebrate this is a speech the ambassador gave on March 5 2019 before a group called the Ukraine crisis media center she said Ukraine's government was backsliding in its efforts against corruption it is increasingly clear that Ukraine's once in a generation opportunity for change has not yet resulted in the anti-corruption or rule of law reforms that Ukrainians expects. Or to serve soon after the speech that Ukrainian prosecutor struck back your Sankoh suggested the us Ambassador was really the corrupt one and I had some difficult personal relationship with Mr buster on March 28th 2019 let Sankoh gave this interview through an interpreter to Hill t.v. a Right leaning website in the us is Mr basses are you gave me a listen was the king of Beatles and we should prosecute should not prosecute Bryan Bon or of a Ukrainian newspaper called the Kiev Post says loot Sankoh was suggesting the ambassador was protecting someone and it turned out to be false completely false the State Department denied it in the retracted but by then the toxic claim had spread the very night of the hill t.v. Reports another accusation against the ambassador reached a t.v. Program very popular with the president of the United States. Sean Hannity of Fox News interviewed a lawyer linked to the president on this prime time show Joe Di Genova suddenly denounced the previously obscure ambassador and we also now know that the current United States ambassador No really you have on a bitch as bad mouth the president of the United States to Ukrainian officials we asked Jennifer where he got that information and he declined to say on March 24 Donald Trump Jr attacked the ambassador on Twitter and in April Hannity interviewed the president himself let me start with this issue in the Ukraine and he asked the president if he'd followed conservative media reporting on Ukraine the president was vague but said the story should win a Pulitzer Prize these are the ones that should be winning it sounds like big stuff it sounds like a very interesting with Hugh Grant weeks later in the spring of 200-1000 Bassett or given of each was called home from her job before the end of her assignment Now why would these toxic claims go so direct. Lee from Ukraine to people around the president here's at least part of the answer Ukrainians who opposed her were also sources for the president's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani was on a months long search for political dirt in Ukraine to help President Trump the 2 indicted businessmen they were helping Giuliani find information that prosecutor accused of corruption he met Giuliani at least twice that's according to the report filed by a u.s. Government whistleblower the president's lawyer developed a negative view of the u.s. Ambassador he later claimed on c.n.n. That she stopped him from interviewing witnesses they were trying to get to was that there would be blocked by the ambassador who was an Obama appointee and friend who was holding back this information and that piece of reporting coming to us from our colleague N.P.R.'s Steve Inskeep giving us the backstory on Marie your version of itch we are in live coverage of Maria von of of his testimony before the House Intelligence Committee which that questioning we expect to resume shortly there on a break so that members can vote but meanwhile we have Michele Kelemen n.p.r. Diplomatic correspondent in the studio and Michelle what you just fill in the blanks we just heard her whole back story how we got to this moment what have we learned sense I mean but we're watching Marie of on average for the 1st time on the record under oath in public telling her account of what happened to her as she was serving in Ukraine right and she gave a very powerful defense not only of herself you know that she's a 3 time embassador had served both Republicans and Democrats nonpartisan and kind of a very by the roles person but also just a defense of the State Department in general I mean she she talked about how she understands that she serves at the pleasure of the president but she finds it difficult to comprehend that foreign and private interests were able to undermine u.s. Interests in that in this way when she was brought back very dramatically in. This spring she was told that she faced a concerted campaign against her she said that she was told she had done nothing wrong she also said that that though the State Department knew that the allegations against her were false they wouldn't stand up to her publicly because they thought they could be undermined by a presidential tweet she didn't name secretary of state might bump directly but but it can be as she is running the state but she's talking about the leadership of this State Department under the trump of ministration and talked about how the State Department is being hollowed out and how denigrating public servants in this way is damaging to u.s. Interests as she gave a very powerful impassioned defense of the department have you heard any reaction yet this morning from folks over at the State Department people who you're monitoring on Twitter or elsewhere well how this is going down there people are definitely cheering for. In that way you know it's interesting I spent the day when Bill Taylor and George can't do other State Department employees testified the 1st day I noticed that the State Department wasn't showing the hearings on the on their in-house t.v. Feed Oh really so you know people would have to go in private behind closed doors and switch the channel the c.n.n. Or whatever else was was showing it to be able to watch and a lot of people obviously were more behind were behind closed doors since they're in their office with the door shut exactly what I can imagine Susan Davis our congressional correspondent is on Capitol Hill this morning tracking the hearing from air and Sue I wonder if you would just give us a little reset on what is happening in the room who's in the room what are we expecting as this testimony resumes we've only heard from the chairman and the top Democratic counsel in the committee so far we've got a lot of hearing left to go when the resume from this break we will begin the Republican side of the questioning that will be led by the chairman or the ranking member excuse me Devan Nunez he's. A Republican from California and a council that normally serves on the Oversight Committee a man by the name of Steve Castor he is a top aide to another house Republican Jim Jordan of Ohio a member who is not technically on the Intelligence Committee but has received a short term appointment by the minority leader Kevin McCarthy to essentially serve as an additional attack dog for the president in his defense in this impeachment investigation so his questioning is certainly one that's drawing a lot of attention as these public investigations or as these investigations go public the question here is Republicans is how do they how are they going to approach this witness as I said that before on the substance of what the president did and what happens Evanovich the fact that she was fired the fact that she was subjected to the smear campaign the fact that career officials socially rallied behind her privately but were publicly averse to speaking out out of fear of provoking the president Republicans have not really spoken specifically to those charges so what the how they're going to approach the question of her will probably fall line along similar lines noting that she doesn't really have direct 1st hand knowledge of the events in question that Democrats are saying at the heart of the impeachment investigation that it's more hearsay it's secondary witnesses and that the president can choose who he wants to serve in his government however he likes or it as this hearing unfolds of course the news does not stop from other parts of Washington and I want to bring back in our editor and correspondent Amanda come on tomorrow because we have a verdict in the Roger Stone trial what's happened yeah he's found guilty guilty on all 7 counts of struction witness tampering lying to Congress Ryan Lucas from our Washington desk it covers just department was in court said Stone stood he had no response when the verdict was read it's likely means he's probably going to face some jail time and this is all part of we should remember the mall investigation just remind us who Roger Stone Yes I mean large stone somebody who's close to President Trump he was someone who advised helped him helped advise his campaign he's long known as kind. The dirty tricks are you know somebody who you know worked with Richard Nixon so he's been around politics in a different kind of way than most political operatives are generally And when he got asked questions and roped into the miller investigation clearly they found some problematic statements with things that he had done and said witness tampering again obstruction lying to Congress very serious charges and a grand jury and jury in d.c. Found him to be guilty on all 7 counts this is surprise you know I don't know if it's a surprise but I think it's another reminder of the fact that even though some people want to talk about how the miller investigation is sort of over and done with that there were things in that that you know Republicans want to say exonerated President Trump it never exonerated President Trump and in fact multiple people who were close to the president in his orbit or wound wound up found found guilty and serving prison time oh right and continues to hang over everything else thank you for being with us you are listening this is special coverage of the impeachment inquiry from n.p.r. News. For those of you just joining us I'm Mary Louise Kelly we are in the middle of live coverage of the impeachment inquiry just to reset what is happening for everybody today on the witness stand just one witness it is Maria avantage the u.s. Ambassador to Ukraine and she has been testifying she got through her opening statement and then the Democrats chairman Adam Schiff. This is Special Coverage from n.p.r. News we're just making our way through a little bit of a pause and break here thank you for staying with us through all the bumps and twists and turns as we continue to cover this live hearing from memory your money bitch I will go back and reset where we are we heard her the opening testimony from Maria von of it before that we heard the top Democrat and top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee who are holding this hearing today all of the open hearings thus far in the impeachment inquiry we heard a little bit as they each laid out how they want today to unfold and I want to peer a little taste of each of those will start with Committee chair this is California Democrat Adam Schiff laying out the Democrats' position the powers of the presidency are immense but they are not absolute and they cannot be used for corrupt purpose American people expect their president to use the authority they grant him in the service of the nation not to destroy others to advance his personal or political interests so that as Adam Schiff Democrat of California ranking Republican Devon Una's had a very different take he used his opening statement to do a number of things among them to argue once again that the whistleblower should be called to testify as the Democrats are well aware no Republicans here know the whistleblowers identity because the whistleblower only met with Democrats not with Republicans Germans shift claim not to know who it is that he also vowed to block us from asking questions that could reveal his or her identity. Republicans on this committee are left wondering how it's even possible for the chairman to block questions about a person whose identity he claims not to know and just for the record Adam Schiff does indeed claim that he does not know who the whistleblower is that he doesn't want to know who the whistleblower is and to argue as some Democrats have that there is perhaps no need now to hear from the whistleblower in testimony because so many of the points made by the whistleblowers initial complaint have since been confirmed by other witnesses a little taste there of Republicans and Democrats and their opening arguments going into what's shaping up to be a long day of testimony we are now coming up to 3 hours in to Live coverage of the Moree Yavanna vege testimony before the House Intelligence Committee that will resume we assume a in not too long as members wrap up the votes that they have been called out of the hearing room to do we hope that they will soon filter back and will resume this questioning of Moree avantage Meanwhile I'm going to bring in someone new to question on my end N.P.R.'s Ron Elving who's joined us in the studio you have been watching this morning Ron your top takeaway or 21 of the things that really strikes you about this whole process at this moment is the extraordinary irony of the whistleblowers position the whistleblower is absolutely crucial to the folding.