With a range of new devices that use its alexy intelligent voice assistant but is in danger of releasing too many variations that confuse potential customers We'll talk to the head of Europol the European cyber crime center on the biggest security threats of the past year chiefly the rise of ransomware and how criminals targeting our banks and we wanted flying cars but got $140.00 characters so the saying goes lamenting Silicon Valley's lack of technological ambition now there's a competition aiming to change that today we look to the sky and we say look that plane is flying but in 2 years we will be able to look to the sky and say Look at that person flying my special guest on the show is the technology writer and broadcaster Kate Bevan stay listening I'll be right back after the news. Hello I'm Rosemary Crick with the b.b.c. News the u.s. Secretary of state Rex Tillerson is in Beijing for talks with Chinese leaders rising tensions between North Korea and the u.s. Are expected to be top of the agenda the trumpet ministration believes China is crucial to efforts to force Pyongyang to stop developing nuclear weapons Here's our Asia Pacific editor Sadia Hansen eager to push China to impose more economic sanctions on North Korea the trumpet ministration repeatedly threatened to impose sanctions of its own on Chinese companies that had ties to North Korea in August the u.s. Treasury named several Chinese companies that would be locked out of the u.s. Financial system for doing business with p.r. Nyang that seems to have pushed China into action it's told North Korean and Chinese North Korean joint ventures in China to close now China will probably do some pushing of its own nudging Rex Tillerson and the trumpet ministration towards negotiations with North Korea the Iranian Foreign Minister Zarif has said he assumes the United States will abandon the 2015 nuclear deal under which Tehran promised to stop enriching uranium in return for the lifting of sanctions Mr Zarif has expressed the hope that Europe would keep the agreement to life then knowings reports Washington may next month start the process of re imposing sanctions on Iran if President Trump tells Congress to run isn't sticking to the nuclear deal u.s. Officials acknowledge Iran is technically in compliance but Mr Trump says Iran is malign and working against the spirit of the agreement by destabilizing the Middle East for Mr Zarif Donald Trump is the unreliable partner who will break America's promises he says Europe will recognize Iran's positive role in regional security should sanctions return he says the e.u. Would offer legal protection to European investors in Iran president tried. Has accepted the resignation of his health secretary Tom Price he would come under pressure after it emerged he had been using expensive private jets while travelling on government business Mr Trump had said he was disappointed in Mr Price activists in the Spanish region of Catalonia occupying schools designated as polling stations for Sunday's controversial referendum on independence on Friday thousands of Catalan separatists held a final rally in Barcelona Tom Barrett reports last night parents slept in schools risking arrest to make sure polling stations are not closed down cattle and police have reportedly been ordered to start clearing people out early on Sunday morning the regional police will have a tricky balancing act if the situation is to remain calm Catalonia as government says more than 6000 ballot boxes kept in secret are ready for use but the Spanish state has been working to disrupt the referendum world news from the b.b.c. . The governor of the Indonesian island of Bali has urged people who live outside the immediate danger zone of the mountain go on volcano to return home how Griffith is in Bali it's more than a week since Bali was put on high alert after hundreds of earthquakes recorded around the base of Mount Agung time around 70000 people have been moved from the exclusion zone around the volcano but another 70000 have also left their homes in the surrounding hills according to the island's governor. Stick those additional evacuees risk becoming a burden and should go home according to the latest data the volcano remains in a state of heightened undressed with plumes of vapor rising from the crater police in southern Germany have detained a man for questioning in connection with a plot to extort millions of dollars from supermarkets by concealing poisoned food products on their shelves the man was detained late on Friday after tipoff from the public earlier this month police in the late Constance area recovered several jars of baby food contaminated with a lick to loose in antifreeze they said there was no need to panic scientists in the United States say losing the ability to smell could be an early warning sign of dementia almost 3000 adults were tested as part of a long term study by research as from the University of Chicago they concluded that people who could not identify the smell of peppermint fish orange rose and leather were more than twice as likely to develop dementia 5 years afterwards Professor giant Pinto led the study there is a growing body of study showing that sensory function really is important for older adults and their health and vision and hearing and now now also play a role in keeping the brain healthy and conservatism as a marker flag if you will to identify people that are at risk for dementia Professor giant b.b.c. News. Welcome to Tech tent your essential weekly going to everything that's going on in the technology world I'm Rory Callinan Jones and this week we're looking at Amazon's determination to maintain its leadership in voice control it's because we find out about the hottest trends in cyber crime and we also whether a personal jet pack could be more than a sigh fight fantasy helping us understand all of this is the biggest technology reporters that we climb and how it's very good to have you with us again add my special guest is tech journalist and cyber security pundit Bev and welcome Kate's back again into the tech always nice to be here already is a flavor of what's coming up and 20162017 we've seen in excess of 100 years the nations have gone so we have all time. Today we look to the sky and we say Look back plane is flying but in 2 years we will be able to look to this and say Look at that person flying over that same bit fast this week the battle over talking technology in the home when I am isn't alone States echo voice control and speak it may at 1st of seem just an interesting but minus side to its main business but it quickly became clear that the Echo and the Alexa smart assistant at its heart was a big bold statement about the company's ambitions to use artificial intelligence in the home this week it unveiled a house series of new Alexa based devices and at the same time got embroiled in a round with Google which also has ambitions in the voice controlled speaker field now man in Silicon Valley Dave Lee was of course at the event Dave Lee Dave what struck you most about it. Well 1st I want to say I was at the event but the I watch every bit of the jet pack bait. But anyway yes interesting event I was out there they have all the 5000 people now working on Alexa. T.v. Console that's more than Go Pro is a company entirely and that number of people has resulted in this flurry of new products being unveiled this week there's now a new sightly smaller version of the Echo it's the system there's an echo plus which is slightly more expensive hasn't Hans small features as the echo spots which is a tiny version that you probably have next to your bed that you can have alarms on the screen and do video calls live except for there's also the echoes show which is of asian the screen which we've seen before but it's now available outside of the u.s. For the 1st time and there's also you can get Alexa as part of the 5 t.v. Don't go but there's also the fights here they stick now I strum as you can have the Saturday so you want to listen you can see in Dade and I think that's going to be a bit of a problem for Amazon and he's sure miles from guys your review site document I mean one of the big confusions will be between the record and which is a new hacker which is a smaller device it looks like a vote nice family home with an air around it and the actor passage is the same thing that makes Mom connectivity and it'll be easier I think of a lot of people saying I'm not sure which one I need and if you saw me create that void if I don't know what I need sometimes I panic I will go and buy something completely different. Now I guess I can get around that they probably will stretch their lead and small I absorbed say because from my experience as Alexa is still these years the most consistent personal assistant that's a big selling point but they could be a big problem as you mention because they're really last week apparently out of nowhere Google brought people for being absent watch You Tube on the Amazon Echo is showing us the version with the screen Google if it is of course Amazon's biggest competitor here and I wonder if we're about see competition get a bit more scrappy because Google of course knows that many people he she to rely on it services is I stopping blocks and Amazon devices that could be a big problem for Amazon search i OS they live who's head of devices. And whether he was worried about it's less about my personal reaction I just think it's not great for customers you know we know customers were using it they liked it and were disappointed that they shut it down and didn't give customers a chance to weigh in on it many consumers are going to be wanting to use many of Google's products with Alexia given that so many people use Google 1st so many things every day are you worried that's going to put you on the back foot if Google acts in this way with its own services on Alexa Well I guess it depends on how far reaching that ends up happening I don't want to speculate about you know hypotheticals but we do offer for example Google Calendar support. And that's still working on Echo like I think in a way like that could get I think customers would be disappointed obviously that's not happened and I wouldn't want to speculate what would happen if they did so that's Dave limp of Amazon a cape having a special guest a you confused by Amazon strategy here with this bewildering array of devices has been like the canvas isn't it there are so many different Kindle devices you need to do which one do I want to save go Kindle Fire tablets they've got the Kindle for the Kindle Oasis and it's like it or there are lots of really good products but Eet is hard to know which one you want. Dave I mean you you mention how many stone off they've got working on it I have 5000 staff working on this Alexa. Empire now I beg Google have got a similar number of staff working on their home this is turning into quite a titanic battle and we're already seeing the tensions there only a year we are. Away frankly to see what good was going to show next week there was that because not only we had recently bringing out this premium that also you know time sink ships are going to do more than its previous models have done I Google we need to compete with that Google also now needs to compete with Amazon she. And small and I'm not sure who can buy it so that's that was you know why is that people might hope it be very very interesting to say just how they stack up next week when we say. Yes there is a big do going to the next we've got a fair idea of what's going to happen there but let's see if they bring out a new home speaker as well most everything that's a talk of quite a few little to him speaking devices this has been really interesting next week Bevan has already got the insight we must move on let's have a look at some of these other big tech stories with very Kleiman Zoe I'm going to be generous and give you 280 characters to explain what critter did this week and why it made some people a bit cross Oh thanks very well that means I can officially take my time to tell you that Twitter has doubled the length of the tweets you can now right after years of being stuck with $140.00 characters which was originally designed to be in keeping with the maximum length of a text message if you remember back that far when they were limited to now rolling out that 280 character limit Twitter founder Jack Dorsey tweeted that it was a small change but a big move for the fan but the news hasn't been unanimously well received given that what many people see as a more pressing issue is the way the platform deals with abuse and hate speech and it's also been quite widely pointed out that what many Twitty users really want is an edit box and I happen to know that Kate Bevan is raging to get this one has been talking about is a week you were impressed were you all as though he says you know there are I think there are bigger things that you need to focus on right now honestly don't remember anybody is again what we really need on Twitter of not to deal with is more with example which are on Twitter is not a slogan I said my cats that would like $280.00 characters because then they could wax even more lyrical about we're not we're not letting you have. Another story Facebook's days as a place where you would sort my baby photos things long ago it's now at the center of global politics what was Mark Zuckerberg on about to dawn on. This week when Mark Zuckerberg dismissed the u.s. President that he's Asian that Facebook is and he Trump in a Facebook paste of course where else is going to do it and that's like a bag that the tech giant was trying to keep old people a voice and create a platform for all I did however he also admitted that he should never said it was crazy that Facebook influence the outcome of the election yeah we did a program the week he said that and said of the point he was crazy to say it was crazy but everyone's being own into the going back to Twitter they had surface up to the fact that they had Russian ads on their platform during the election and yes it is not been a great week for Twitter really has it and in many ways and they they have been accused of not being entirely clear I think about about exactly what's been going on with their relationship with Russia and. It's been described as deeply disappointing by one of the Democratic Senate says Mark Warner and it has said that it shut down about $200.00 accounts linked to what it called a Russian misinformation campaign and Russia of course has repeatedly denied claims that it has in any way been involved in interfering with the u.s. Elections a lot of evidence that social media played a vital role in Russian attempts to em. That's I have an inference in the u.s. One more story why does a Swedish furniture giant want to own a classic zip Silicon Valley Gig Economy startup Well for those of us to Him d.i.y. Does not come naturally and I absolutely have to include myself in that category this is a deal that I think makes a lot of sense I keep it has announced that it's buying the startup time scrap it which essentially matches people looking to pay all the fake to carry out all jobs for them whether that's gold Nagel cleaning or of course assembling furniture Now tell us about it currently operates in 40 cities around the world and it's a strong example of what you describe there is the geek economy and of course along with that come the criticisms of things like you know the pay is low I this poor Times who work is often they're not really contracted and so it's a slightly sort of problematic model I think for people to work in however it's phenomenally successful and we only have to look of the good economy apps like a bear and that's it to see that you know needed the demand is that say if you are fed up with the Ikea instruction booklets I can trace them out the window I think and this is the one for yeah yeah I should say my wife saw this news and said thank goodness is no more of you swearing it's swearing instructions and throwing things against the wall. We've got to move on you're listening to tech time on the b.b.c. World Service I'm requesting Jones in a moment could we all be flying around with personal jet packs. First of want to cry and Mirai No no characters in Game of Thrones but the malicious software used in some of the most serious cyber attacks of the past year the big theme in cyber crime according to the annual Internet crime threat assessment produced by the European law enforcement agency Europos is run somewhere that's where computers a locked up by malware and criminals demand money to really should data Stephen Wilson the head of the European cyber crime center Europos told me about this. This threat ransomware as affecting every single level going from the past in the House race through to significant business East and as we've seen recently critical national infrastructure and 20162017 we've seen in excess of $100.00 Uva sions of grants and we are all targeting a weight range of business and what is being done to combat this I will be understanding it properly are we are we becoming less vulnerable to or frankly are we losing out on that one or we had West want to cry I actually in some ways is probably markedly and stopped as ability of the threat and as many ways you can protect yourself regarding this lots of good advice on our website No moron some dork thought on Investigators say we walk more and more closely with and the street to grind their resources along with law enforcement resources to get a call to trying to get us could take but to be frank people are actually paying these ransoms and the criminals are making money out of this and therefore they're going to go on with it yeah absolutely and I think the problem we've seen is that I think these availability of grants and we are and will be called cybercrime as a service people may with I take accountability can partition on some we are on the toilet and I think that's responsible for a lot of good always and for we see just know that some multi multi 1000000 as not $1000000000.00 business across the world now now you also mention cryptocurrency is there's a huge amount of money going into critter guarantees of all kinds of the moment is that also an arena for crime yeah absolutely no thought of the past several years we've seen that calling as being the most and for Angel cryptocurrency were no stopping to see them the absence of additional comes his money at all the trash to name a few and again these very much are becoming the common seize all of the cyber criminals wasn't problems does that present to it to investigative again is trying to fold out money and we're no developing tactics or leaks of but going to be able to walk west and the state to try and hold out money and occasions through the block. Through them access to trying to identify the individuals involved by again I would dress us up as a significant challenge for law enforcement you also mentioned direct attacks on bank networks and you say that's a serious emerging threat tell us more Yellen is the a.t.m. Network we've seen there may have been solved we are targeting the e.t.f. Network allowing people to either harvest details of people pretty rare cards and or what we call giant parting really can actually empty an entire a.t.m. Or so small we're we spoke a couple of years ago to one of your Europos colleagues who said there were probably better just 100 named individuals that have been identified behind the vast proportion of this crime. One they've been stopped I don't think you could actually see named and 4 we've seen as them evidence of the cyber criminal underground this idea of cyber crime is a 70 of one person supplies a small part of the Cyber Crime Network you kill a lot of people together like almost subcontracted and that's why it becomes so difficult to big donors networks era polars been talking about this for a long time about the rising tide of cyber crime is it winning No I think if you look at the sheer pull we've been involved in an altercation avalanche taking down a Marxist and promotional cyber crime conglomerate with 5 key individuals involved and not arrested if you look at the recent of the dart markets also be Han's or market coordinated global or enforcement action spirit starting to one but unfortunately a staple claim is growing so quickly that we've got to run the stance that Stephen Wilson from you're a pole cave and you write a lot about cyber crime and cyber security so you've got 2 sides there you had these big operations the taking down of Alpha-Beta other successful operations and yet in the public's mind we've seen big threats this year things like want to cry. How do you see the forces range here I mean who is winning I think is it have to say. Are the bad guys winning because it's like you know a game of Whack a Mole you take will not out another comes up you develop defenses against one type of ransomware and somebody tweaks it and it's back again or another type of malware you know it's a constant battle to play catch up relay ransomware has you know entered the public's mind of over the last year is there any evidence that that we're winning against that because people must be at least aware of the danger you'd think they'd be aware of the dangers of clicking on links of responding to phishing emails and so on I need think companies would be perhaps a bit will cautious about handing over money in the end I think we did see a lot of people handing over money after the want to cry attack one of things we can do is keep an eye on where the Bitcoin money is going and which will it is going and actually there was not much money handed over but you know your weakest point in any security and his almost a cliche now is you're human beings and people will still click on links in phishing emails that they'll still hand over their details and you know this it's really down to organizations to educate people within the about what the threats really are because I think it's very easy to think oh this doesn't really affect me if you're sitting at work and somebody sends you an email and maybe that you need to log in to sort out your bank account what have you it's you know it is down to each and every one of us to keep an eye on this and keep on top of it where all at the front line in the battle against cyber crime now if you wanted evidence that the tech world can still think big it's come today from a long mask the Tesla tycoon has unveiled plans to use his space x. Rocket firm to fly passengers around the world in 60 minutes and to send astronauts to Mars as early as 2024 but here is another example of blue sky thinking a $2000000.00 competition to build that staple of sight a personal jet pack sponsored by Boeing and run by a startup called Go fly the contest will encourage teams from around the world to come up with design. Signs Entries must be capable of carrying a person 20 miles without refueling or recharging with a vertical own their vertical takeoff and landing the reporter Jane Wakefield spoke to Gwen Leiter the founder of go fly in it's simplest sounds this is about making people fly it is the stuff of your childhood dreams today we looked at the sky and we say Look back plane is flying but in 2 years we will be able to look to the sky and say Look at that person flying it in a sense it's also a little bit about a story about the future of transportation because we are truly at the brink of a legitimate shift in the way we travel from one place to another there has been a convergence of so many breakthrough technologies that make this the 1st moment in history where these personal flying devices can be built so one of those types of technologies that you think are going to be incorporated into this device there are the stability and the control systems from the drone world that make previously on flyable configurations fly and then if you go outside and you see a car driving autonomous Lee Those are timeless the systems may be incorporated as well and then look at the advances that we're seeing in a lecture with batteries and capacitors right now there are buses that travel 1000 miles on a single charge if you combine those with the fact that there are lightweight material advances and combine that with the fact that right now there is 3 d. Printing and 3 d. Metal printing and rapid prototyping so that the world of innovation is open to those outside of the larger corporations and innovation becomes much less expensive and much more quick to evolve. We find ourselves at this golden age of innovation where we actually have the ability to make people fly technically it probably is possible but is it practical infrastructure around us isn't necessarily there yet for everybody to have their own flying machine so can you get round those problems so it's really hard to say with absolute certainty what the future will look like and what types of innovations will will win out there are difficulties that we will absolutely need to serve about but the fact of the matter is that the aviation industry was built on creating solutions for issues that we actually invent in the 1st place and if you liken it to ground transportation there were actually no major systems of paved roads and rules of the road in interconnectedness in such a a a federal national way in till we had the car technology that allowed people to actually be able to go and move in an automobile so you are absolutely correct there are regulatory issues and community except in tissues all of which we will need to focus on and solve together but one cannot solve those problems until the technology exists and so go fly is catalyzing the creation of this new technology and catalyzing the creation of these new forms of moments and then together we will work on making sure that the system that we have created works for everyone as green lights a go fly climb and big ideas both from go fly with personal jet. Packs and even bigger ideas from. Good to see some of this sort of extraordinary ambition apply Oh I mean it's wonderful to see the ambition and the passion and enthusiasm I feel like that lady that could be anything actually she was very passionate about it I think I think that the sort of the regulation the fact that the batteries you know I knew lost her about 10 minutes with a tiny drain is a little the most of things in the way don't they she didn't mention them I'm not sure they can be brushed aside quite so easily I think we're quite a long way off that sort of thing but yeah isn't it inspiring and exciting you know if he was saying only that maybe one day we actually will get the flying scenes we were promised today as he is the gate keepers and what's your take on this Jean Barnett wrote the definitive piece on jetpacks in the Guardian and why we're not getting them and he points out some of the basic physics of this is 1st you don't particularly want to rocket pack on your back burning the backs of your legs as it tries to have 2 off the ground and then this Yeshu of gravity and us of 70 plus kilo adult that's quite a lot to get off the ground I think we're way off jetpacks yet and briefly Musk right to say he'd be taking us around the earth in 60 minutes quite soon it's theoretically possible whether it soon I don't know I'd love to see it we don't have to see it but that's where today's flight comes to a day and thanks to my special guest technology journalist Kate Bevan thanks to Zoe climbing from the b.b.c. Take empire you could read all of our stories at b.b.c. Dot com slash technology to tell your friends to download our podcast it's doing very well at the moment and don't forget to join us again in the tech tent same time next week. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the us has made possible by American Public Media producer a distributor of award winning public radio content designed to reengage inform and entertain proud to offer the b.b.c. World service of bringing global news reach to an American audience because we live in an increasingly global rapidly changing and interconnected world a.p.m. American Public Media. Whatever you do no matter how hard you try you can't stop it gravity has taken control and you're folding I fell 25 stories 35 miles an hour and it was the most physical pain I had ever or have ever experienced I had 4 seconds in those 4 seconds I said What if I just don't I don't want to die God please save me 2 incredible stories of folding and dealing with the aftermath of the impact that's coming up on Outlook weekend after the news. B.b.c. News with Rosemary Craik the u.s. Secretary of state Rex Tillerson is in Beijing for talks with President Xi Jinping and other senior politicians rising tensions between North Korea and the u.s. Are expected to be top of the agenda the trumpet ministration believes China is crucial to efforts to force Pyongyang to stop developing nuclear weapons the Iranian foreign minister Mohamad Zarif has said he assumes the United States will abandon the international deal restricting terror on its nuclear activities next month the u.s. Congress will begin the process of re imposing sanctions on Iran if President Trump says terror on has failed to stick to the terms of the deal but Mr Zarif says the European Union could keep the agreement to life hundreds of activists in the Spanish region of casual Ania occupying schools designated as polling stations for Sunday's controversial referendum on independence they want to make sure the buildings can be used for voting something the central government wants to prevent the governor of the Indonesian island of Bali has urged people who live outside the immediate danger is there you know if the rumbling mounts are going volcano to return home he said the number of evacuees has become too high. The Cambodian opposition say approximately half of their lawmakers have left the country out of fear they'll be arrested following threats from Cambodia's long time leader who can say in the opposition party's leader was charged with treason earlier this month police in southern Germany have detained a man for questioning in connection with a plot to extort millions of dollars from supermarkets by concealing poisoned food products on their shelves the man was detained late on Friday off to tip off from the public the latter in Bollywood Indian television and theatre actor Tom Alter has died of cancer at age 67 he was a 3rd generation American in India who often portrayed the role of British colonial oppressor b.b.c. News. Close your eyes for a moment and imagine your folding. 4 seconds and those 4 seconds as it were of I just I don't want to die God please save me. I found this. Balance. And I was on the ground. Today to extraordinary stories of gravity at work I'm Matthew Bannister and this is Outlook weekend 3067 meters and falling. Apart 167 meters. It's the year 2000 and Kevin Hines is a 19 year old college student from California Kevin hasn't been feeding himself it's been going on for a while and now it's come to the attention of his father I remember my father coming into my room at 7 the morning and saying Karen I'm very worried about you I don't know what to do when you come to work with me today and I was so distraught and depressed so I for my father in the taking me to City College that day. And I told him I said Dad I'll come see how Would 6 pm tonight and he drives me to school and I'm just silent the entire time because I'm I'm thinking he'll find me I have to be quiet and when you're in that state of mind you feel that there's no reason for you to be here so you went to school what did you do when you go to school well I wanted to my counselors department I dropped all my classes did anyone notice that you were doing something really unusual though nobody noticed and you know that policy has since changed to when counselors see something like this happen they don't they don't just look at you click a bunch of buttons and say goodbye which is what happened to me Kevin's problems had begun 2 years earlier at the age of 17 when he started suffering from mental illness I started believing that people were out to get me and trying to hurt me and trying to kill me and did other people notice that you were in trouble I'm certain so notice my Radek behavior no doubt about it my my mother certainly my father they would force the time but they could certainly see that I was not in control of my own well being they didn't know what what it was you know this was our 1st experience as a family with brain illness and my particular diagnosis was actually very severe when I went from the paranoia to the mania to the depression I then dealt with very serious elucidations both auditory and visual so you were hearing voices in your head oh yeah and seeing things that didn't exist anyone but me seeing people that didn't exist any would have me places things it was terrifying Kevin was diagnosed with bipolar disorder he tried to control his condition with medication and therapy but one morning in September he reached breaking point I wrote a note to my family and my friends my girlfriend the time I wrote this note saying to my mom that I loved her saying to my dad I love him but you know you guys are now or is right kind of a thing I said to my girlfriend it's not you it's me you know it's nonsense and I and I I started the note a part of a backpack got on the bus. I went out to the g.g. B. . The g g b is the Golden Gate Bridge an American architectural icon which 1st opened in $1037.00 to provide a crossing over the mile long Golden Gate waterway in San Francisco since then it's also developed a heartbreaking reputation of being a place where people go to take their own lives almost 2000 of them since it 1st opened Catherine was thinking about joining them. To a place and in such despair that I believed I had no other option i took place in my life where I thought that I was a burden to everyone who loved me at a place where I thought I was worthless. And that's what led me to go on the project compulsion to die. I spend for 40 the. Crying very voices screaming you must die just now. People wrote Barry bikers jars terse runners biker police searching for a suicide of people rode by me and nobody saw the pain I was in one woman approached me and said that they'll take my picture and then accent and I did several times and editor camera she walked away there was a moment I. Actually cared. So I just. I had an insert regret remark. And 4 seconds of those 4 seconds I sort of I just turned it over and dad got to say and this is something that suicidal people lead to comprehend at the moment of the attempt. When you think it's too late. Afternoon reverse your idea. Kevin might have changed his mind but it was already. Far too late he was folding 67 meters towards the icy water below I fell $25.00 stories 35 miles an hour and it was the most is prepaid never ever. A should have been the end for Kevin the impact alone should have killed him but it's not a powerful current and freezing water should have taken his life only one percent of jumpers have survived the full So why does Kevin believe he is among them. When I surface from that water there were 3 things that came into play to save my life. I found out later that when I would over the rail a woman driving by in a red car saw me go over it she called her friend the Coast Guard which was the reason they arrived my position in the water in a timely manner before I would set not 30. As I bobbed up and down the water and prayed to stay afloat something began certainly beneath you something very very alive I thought that it was a shark I was on a show and I said I thought there's a shark beneath me and a man rode in the show Kevin I'm very glad you're alive I was standing less than 2 feet away from you when you jumped by the Hi Kevin there was no shark it was a sea lion and I have pictures my father I look at the bush my father fell out of his chair and that's what I remember I was no longer wading as in moving my hands to stay afloat I was floating back and this thing just bumping me up. The 3rd is the 2 for the Coast Guard officers that came in the water and pulled me to safety put me in a neck brace and strapped me into a flat board back so that getting the hospital and the doctor who wasn't supposed to pee there that day having stayed for a separate reason I come in he opts to do our back surgery and always just happens to be one of the foremost back surgeons on the West Coast and he gave me the ability to be as freely in mobile as I am today and you don't put any of these things down to chance you think that there's a high up there was looking after you on Monday. You know. I do I have always had that faith my whole life that everybody does know I don't want to push on anybody but that's certainly how I feel. Well Kevin might have survived the full but he was still very sick both physically and mentally he says an intervention by a stranger started him on the path to recovery. In the physical hospital where I was recuperating a Franciscan friar rosary in one hand he comes in he has a kid what he had for a. Brother I jumped off the go Gate Bridge and he said Oh yeah and I'm the Pope he did he said No brother that's what happen he has oh I feel so silly let's pray over it we pray for all of it and he goes hey kid when you get better you want to talk about this and I looked at the guy and I said about what to who. Anyway I got to the hospital within a month I do a psych ward out of the cycle and I go to church my dad and the priest comes out. And how would you like to come and talk to our students so good Friday about your experience and my father was behind me and I looked to the priest as if you know father I don't have a speech I would know what to say and I felt my dad's imprint of his hand on my back and he shoved me forward and he looked at the priest he said he'll do it with his father's encouragement Kevin agreed to speak to the students it was the 1st time he chaired his story as a say this day I remember thinking what am I doing who's just going to help and I get 120 letters from 120 kids 2 weeks later those letters were very very kind and very beautiful and very thought provoking and several of the kids reactively suicidal and mentioned that in their letters and we were able to get the bell but when that happened that's when I knew I had to do this for 17 years now Kevin has been sharing his story is a suicide prevention and mental health advocate but he still finds some days a struggle I have chronic suicidal thoughts. So I think about it often enough it kind of plagues me I manage my illness through medication exercise sleep diet and so much more and I'm able to stay rational and stay above ground if you will because I work extremely hard for my back to health suicide doesn't just affect the individual concerned it also affects families and you've mentioned your father what effect did all of this have on him when he found out what you tried to do it was devastated you know when he got the call to hospital he thought they just wanted him to id the body at the morgue he had never heard of anybody surviving that that bridge jump and they both were terrified but can your family recover from it we stay tight and as long as we're communicating will be Ok but I'll tell you this I last year asked my father if he still fears my death by suicide my father's answer was Kevin every time the phone rings he didn't say one and when I call him he said when the phone goes off in his pocket his 1st thought is Kevin alive. And that's so heart breaking for me and I tried my best not to hold guilt for that reaction but that's the reaction of a lot of people in my life but I'll tell this I've committed to life today and I will be here I'll die of natural causes. You're listening to Outlook weekend 3067 meters unfolding. 23000 meters. And 1904 Los Angeles Olympics Games are just around the corner and in the South African city of blue Fontaine a young athlete called Zola Bud is training hard at school in South Africa you had to do a sport and I was just so bad at all the others faults like tennis and gymnastics and swimming I couldn't swim so I was. I chose running because and he was only during the summer so during the wings I didn't have to do in his office so that was . How did you always run in bare feet right from the start yes I we deny shoes you didn't have shoes what you mean didn't own any running shoes you know because all of all this boarded school we did if we did if we had to be at school you know you do it before and it was just accepted it's such an almost thing to do in South Africa the bethought Zola Bud began breaking junior records and then in 1984 aged just 17 she broke the women's 5000 meter world record on the last lap of the 5000 meters everybody could see the world record set by the American Mary Decker was in her grasp she did it by more than 6 seconds so did you record would not be officially recognized because the sporting world shut in South Africa at the time South African athletes were banned from international competition because of sanctions against the country's apartheid regime today members of the South African lympics Association have been in London arguing that they should be allowed to compete at the Olympic Games in Los Angeles this summer and this ban has had one female athlete particularly hard I mean is bad so we're just going to seems to be emerging this year. In international competition because it should end when it's Ok to achieve ation. Probably were enforced Zola had a British grandfather so in a highly controversial move she applied for British citizenship or application was fast tracked by the British government so she could represent the country at the Los Angeles Olympics I was pleased when the johns are rife we need to be able to compete internationally because a lot of other South Africans followed the same pathway and they ran for other countries or played cricket for other countries it wasn't something strange was that Africans to do at that time we were aware of the political situation we were aware that what you were doing might be internationally controversial no I wasn't aware. And I think if I had known then what I'd know now none of us would even have data got on that plane the home office here has admitted she jumped the citizenship so that she'd be eligible for this year's game so we think it's something that she has being granted citizenship in 10 days whereas for most people it takes between one and 2 This lady has got her nationality in 10 days flat and there are 70000 people who have nationality applications having to wait an average of 14 months I think it's scandalous that they have to wait 40 times as long as she has had to wait whereas they need it and in her case she simply being manipulated by people who are going to make a lot of money out of the Home Office of actors in the same way if she had been a black skinned South African every race I ran they were protesting they would stand they were blacks saying free Nelson Mandela and that was the 1st time I heard of Nelson and I turned to my coach and I said who is an awesome and I don't know of his existence how could you not have known of him he was jailed in 1962 I was born in 1966 and because of the government they were strictly controlled the press his name was never mentioning newspaper or the agency or anything I know it sounds strange for people living in a world like today where everything is at your fingertips but we didn't have any international news and the press tried to get you to condemn apartheid state they kept asking you didn't they would you condemn a party and you really didn't do that with was there a reason why you didn't really speak out I think the main reason was I felt even if I did speak out it wouldn't make a difference at that time was like fighting a losing battle in a way because I just felt so spoiled it by the newspaper by the anti about it movement by. My family in a way in my mind's eye was going overseas to run internationally and all these amazing experiences of running on international tracks and international events but it was just totally the opposite Meanwhile in America Mary Decker was preparing herself for the biggest competition of her career she was the U.S.A.'s top hope for a medal in the 3000 meters and heavily tipped to win gold for Mary these games had an extra importance I started running 1970 and by 72 I did have the fastest times in America for the women's 800 However my Federation wouldn't let me compete in the Olympic trials because I was only 13 and you had to be 14 to run in the Olympics 4 years later I started having injury problems so I just wasn't physically able to participate then came in 980. 989980 I was healthy I was fit for the u.s. Boycotted Russia so then it before I came along and because I mean from age 30 and tell 84 that was my whole focus wanting to make it to the Olympics Mary was so focused on her own training the chief not even heard of her new challenger Zola Budd I learned of Zola after practice one day I was at home I see my Achilles. And a story came out about Zola but it was primarily talking about getting British citizenship and a passport to compete in the Olympic Games I've been told them I really. Didn't know anything about Zola and every time I spoke to the press it's always name would come up I didn't really follow the other athletes in my vents very closely because I've always been of the my. You worry about what you're doing your training and if you can be the best you can be but the young idolized Mary Decker she was my hero she was on my on my wall you better more yes so what was it about her that had made her your hero I think the way she ran she was a front runner and I think that really spoke to me as the Los Angeles Olympics drew closer all anyone could talk about was Bud vs Deca the American favorite versus the young inexperienced girl from South Africa representing Great Britain I feel it was very unfair because I've never run any big international races and I wasn't even close to being able to run a competitive race against me or break up because I didn't have the explosive speed or the knowledge of how to run a tactical race to to run with him so I think it was very unfair to me and it was unfair to the other athletes because nobody ever mentioned when you sly or very cheeky or Len Jennings or any of the other on this when the race both me and my coach knew he wasn't the best thing for me to run the Olympics it would be too much pressure on me and I think my coach realised that did you really want to not race I mean we really were in that state of mind yes I really wanted to get the raise over and done with and go back home Mary Decker had been working towards this competition since her career began and now all the focus was on the big race I chose to compete only on the 3000 and so you only had one shot so I only had one shot how intense is this How intense is this you've been waiting all this time you know missing all those chances and you've only got one event that you know you can make your mark in but we were emotions about that you know before the race before the race I remember being on the starting line just being really excited but of course you're super nervous and starting why and the fact that it was in l.a. Made the pressure a little. More and your home territory Yes And essentially in my backyard of where I started running after all the build up all the anticipation the athletes were already lining up for the 3000 meter battle ahead Barry Jeckell wearing the red of Team USA and silver bud in white representing Great Britain it was a really nice. Greatest I was boxed in and for me the only safe place to run when you're when you're running barefoot is in a friend's spikes can just try. The race began without incident the favorite Mary Decker lead the pack hot on her heels with full laps to go so that made her move away into the lead and I felt as I felt I was off balance and I almost felt I mean we see your leg in the video we can see your legs move over to the left you know why your leg moves so I think because I was somebody running to me or bunting to happen I think throughout the race and another girl fell in the right but then she told went wrong a sharp intake of breath from the thousands of spectators was heard around the stadium as the commentator confirmed the news Decker's down the World Champion and one of the favorites is now flat out on the infield Mary Decker is out of the race . I just remember. Another lympics. I remember my coach prior to the races. Have to put it in context because I was a front runner just like solar I was most comfortable from the front and part of that comes from the fact that most of the time I had to go to the front to run faster turns but my coach said well you know if someone else wants to take the lead for a couple laps let them and that's what went through my head where and so you know to start with I didn't realize who it was I thought Ok well then all of a sudden I was on the ground. My 1st thought was to get up and I tried to roll over and I couldn't it was like an electrical shock and. I just couldn't get what certain was simply the frustration and the emotion of what had just occurred this is all about was still leading the race with only 3 laps left to go it was her 1st Olympic games and had been so tarnished by controversy but she could still win a medal on the next lap when I came around I saw was maybe the crowd started booing and I think the the one thing that went through my mind was this is the last straw that breaks the camel's back and I just realized I go on on the wording. Because I think I could have won a bronze at least and that's when I slowed down it was almost like I want to get out of year 9 I never want to ever want to come back solar finished 7th to a chorus of boos Mary Decker never finished the race she was carried off the track by her husband in floods of tears arguments raged about who was to blame for the incident and similar try to speak to Mary I apologize I tried to apologize I just said Don't bother I just didn't want to talk to anybody I was still in the middle of processing what had just occurred at the press conference after the race Mary Decker still shaken and emotional from the fall took to the microphone to make a statement it was all a bad try to cut in with that without having without being basically I had. I think her foot caught me and to avoid pushing her I found I mean. When I think about it now I should have pushed her but if I had pushed her tomorrow the headlines were. I don't think there's any question that she was in the wrong and I do hold her responsible for what happened. I generally believe that at the time because I felt like I must have tripped over her foot but looking back on it now. I regret that and I regret the fact that whoever was guiding me at that time even let me do a news conference I realized I didn't have experience running in a pack solo didn't have experience running in a pack and you put those 2 entities together. An accident occurred. Both women's lives were overshadowed by that fateful fall after being disqualified from the race but then reinstated returned to South Africa to receive death threats an avalanche of adverse media comment and even her own father turned his back on her. Very day continued her running career but never won an Olympic medal the 2 runners live their lives in different continents and had no contact with each other for 32 years but then they agreed to meet again at the stadium in Los Angeles where that fateful race had taken place. In Michigan I was a bit apprehensive when I walked onto the Coliseum I just noticed Mary's body language and I knew this is going to be good for both of us to do this I was excited actually sees I was excited to actually be back in the coliseum you know I think one level people want me to be more emotional about being in the coliseum but it really didn't have that sort of impact on me what I was like the most forward to was seeing Zola meetings all the getting to talk to Zola and getting to apologize apologize for what for saying Don't bother. The press conference said you know the whole situation I was just very thankful to be able to meet Mary away from the press and away from other runners and just meet her and get to know her I think there's a lot of parallels between our lives and we have a lot of the same interesting. Away from running for me it was nice to get to know Marian and her background this was the 1st I could actually get together and spend time together as humans and get to know each other not just as. Well as for me that was the nicest thing on the whole. The full. You've been listening to Outlook weekend 3067 meters unfolding I'm Matthew Bannister. Have you ever wondered what the future will look like you know mix will ultimately cure cancer I like to call this body 3 point out all by G.P.'s Datsun but bare living parts fully integrate back into the body generations after us a 100 because it was that humans for driving cars I'm Guy Raz join me each week as we look into the future and Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. . Sunday afternoon at 4 this is w one p.r. Connecticut's public radio source for news and ideas w one p.r. And w. One p.r. H.d. One Meriden w p k t w p k t h d one Norwich w e d w f e m Stamford w. W Matic w d o f Fairfield. Springfield and.