Be, right . We talk with top trump adviser Rudy Giuliani and clinton supporter bernie sanders. And is russia hacking the election . The latest on the Security Threat from abc news, its this week. Here now, george stephanopoulos. Good morning. Is in the october surprise . Breaking news from the New York Times. The ban erp headline. Trump tax records could have avoided paying taxes for yeerps. The story has trumps tax records from 1995 and they detail a 916 million loss, a loss he could have used to avoid paying federal taxes on income over 18 years. And that puts this exchange from mondays debate in a whole new light. Maybe he doesnt want the American People, all of you watching tonight, that know that hes paid nothing in federal paying taxes making him smart, what does it make the rest of us. All through the campaign, trump has said a Business Plan pays as little taxes as possible. He could have paid nothing for years and years. The evidence, the 1995 tax records, show he had billion v millions of dollars in losses from an airline and the plaza hotel. The Trump Campaign with this statement. A responsibility to his business, his family and flows to pay no more tax than legally required. Did it not say trump paid federal income taxes and trumps team threatened legal action against the times saying the boxments were illegally obtained. And traump last night, a brand new assault on Hillary Clinton mocking her recent bout with her car. Give me a break. Give me a break. And questioning her marriage. I dont even think shes loyal to bill, you want to know the truth. And really, folks, really, why should she be . Right . Why should she be. All this as a brand new poll shows a clear over trump. And trumps favorablety rating is up to 64 . Rue zi giuliani coming. But right now, we are joined by Suzanne Craig and david barstow. Tell us how it began. Ten daps ago, you got a letter. . It was a week ago last friday. Roughly ten days ago. It was friday afternoon. I was on a deadline for another story and i swung by my mailbox. Was an envelope there from somebody in the Trump Organization and i opened it and there were several pages of Donald Trumps tax returns in it. The return address was trump tower. Do you have evidence it was from trump to you center. That is what the return address said and we started to unravel who it might have been and who could confirm it. David that is when you went down to florida and actually found trumps accountant from the time . Yeah, obviously a c doc documents . Its a small circle of people do that. One of those is jack mintic who served as trumps accountant for many decades. Soy presented what had been sent to us and asked him to take a look. And he looked at them and said, variety of reasons. Lets talk about what they show enter dont show. You cant say for sure whether or not he paid income taxes for the last 18 years but it shows he could wry off over 916 million in income . That is exactly correct. One of the tax expert came to him with the tax return what he would say is congratulations, you can earn and not pay a nick knell taxes. All legally. All legally under the loopholes. We are hearing from trumps lawyer this morning, they are threatening legal action. Last time i checked, it was about crime to check your mailbox. They are saying its ridiculous. So it would be a crime for someone inside the tax but its not illegal to publish them. That is what our layers are saying. 9 11ly, any more documents coming . We hope. Were at the New York Times and we check our mail back. 628 8th avenue. Thank you. We are joined by Rudy Giuliani. Thanks for coming in. What is your response to the story . My response is, hes a genius. A genius ago, perfectly legal. Perfectly legal. We should get that straight. Its a perfectly legal application of the tax code and he could have been a fool not to take advantage of it. Be he probably would have breached his duty to investors, to his business. You have an obligation when you run a business to maximize the profits and if there is a tax law that says i can deduct this, can sue you. You say test a genius. One says it reveals Donald Trumps failures. He failed to pax taxes while tens of millions of families paid theirs. Well, thats not clear it was 1. 8 million dlsh. 916 million. Last year for example he made 625 million. Fp he had one year in which he made 1 wiped it out in one year. So its unlikely that it carried forward with 18 years. That is the amount of income he was making. Second, every great man has had failures and the art of the deal, he explains it. Steve jobs was firped from apple and had nothing. The reality, this man, 26 years ago, had some failures and then he built an empire. For the United States. This a genius hon how to take advantage of legal rem 2ki7s that you k help your Company Survive and grow. I want a man who is genius to take this country, where its moving in the wrong direction where we have had a jobless recovery and growth of less than 2 in two years that is pathetic. Dont you think a man with an economic genius states . And mr. Trump in the past has criticized people for not paying taxes. A tweet from 2012. Half of americans dont pay income tax because of the crippling Government Debt and in the campaign he has taken on Hedge Fund Managers who have avoided taxes. The Hedge Fund Guys get away with murder. They make a fortune. Its ridiculous. Pay no tax. Why is it fair . Why is this fair . If i run a company, and i do, and there are five deductions available to me and i dont take them, the people invested in the company can sue me for not doing that. And number two, my obligation in that circumstance is to save the company from he went down and came back up. America needs a turn around artist. Nobody believes that Hillary Clinton can turn america around. Its going to be obama 2 or obama 3. Whatever you want to call it. Higher taxes, less job, 1 growth. We put our head down. This man is man who know what is it feels like to fail and then how to come back from it. The statement from the Trump Federal income taxes in 18 years. Did he . Im not his lawyer. I scht he did because that kind of loss youre looking at, given the income he has had, says he probably paid off the Carry Forward very, very quickly. I have clients with Carry Forward that is twice that, three times that. That is part of what you do in business. If you didnt do it, you would be sued. Does it on trump to release the taxes . No president ial candidate in a generation has not released it suggests why he doesnt. Nobody understands the tax code. This is perfectly legal and he is in a box. If you dont do it, you get sued. And suggesting that he didnt pay federal taxes. If you give mow your money and i start a business and there are five deductions available to take advantage of two of them because it may make me look bad when im running for president or something else, then youre going to sue me. For not taking advantage of that deduction. And that is what happened here. And it shows what a genius he is, how smart he is, how intelligent he is. Huh strategic he is. I want that working for me. I dont want see if he is produce the results for us. Had e is not going to produce the returns . Had e is going to produce the finished when everything is clarified. The returns from 2002 to 2008 are not under audit. This man is audited every year. Never once has had a criminal charge brought against him. He operates he understands the law. He operates within it and he understands on the other side how he can get sued. I would rather have a person who turn around artist than a person who is a failure basically as secretary of state. Lets mef on to last night. We showed in the piece earlier, mr. Trump mocking Hillary Clinton with the bout with pneumonia and questioning her marriage to bill clinton. Is that a smart tragedy . I dont see last night. The reality is, she at the end night live said it beautifully, and she mentioned the model and made it appear as lester holt brought it up. She was programmed to bring it up. Trump took the debate, didnt he . He brings up this woman. This woman goes back 20 years or so. She has a very unfortunate past. She was a driver in a bank robbery. She brought that into this. She brought personal life into it. He brought it up every day since then. Im asking was that smart . I cant tell you whether or not that is smart. She is the one who sbre deuced it. We will tell by who wins the election whether or not it was smart. You want to bring personality into it, hillary, and your husband has a history that he has and you have a history of attacking the women the only are the ones who say they have been victimized by her husband. We have 20, 30, 50 . Campaigns in the past, you go back to 1998, during the impreachment, the House Republicans they lose seats. Your own advisered looked to bring it up and said it was a bad idea. I think its a bad idea to focus on president clintons personal life. That is his personal life. She is attacking donald trump, well, we have to respond how she deals with women. She has to take money from governments that kill women, from governments that stone women. Take money from governments that have women who cant drive cars. Not just money. Millions and tens of millions of dollars from countries in which women are treated like prooperty and killed when they get raped. And so lecture me, hillary, on feminism because youre a phony. You suggested this week that donald trump might not shouldnt go to the debate. Is it fair . Of course, there is no question he is going to the stekd debate. Fy said something to suggest the opposite that is not what i intended. I think the first debate was extremely unfair. When he corrected donald trump. And stop and frisk, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, is constitutional. That is not way its done in new york at the time. That happens all the time. If a person does a Home Invasion a search of your home and doesnt follow the constitution that is unconstitutional. But does it make it unconstitutional . It makes it unconstitutional applied. Hillary clinton knows that, and lester holt didnt know she said it was a goal standard. She made a very definitive statement. He never corrected her. Why . Mr. Trump will be there next sunday. Yeah. Thanks for coming in. And we are joined by a big supporter of Hillary Clinton, her former opponent, bernie sanders. Thanks for coming in this morning. I want to start with the big New York Times story on donald dth is a genius. Your response . If everybody in the country was a genius, we would not pay taxes. We would not have a country. I think its outrageous and it speaks to one of the issues that Hillary Clinton talked about, i have talked about. We have massive wealth in the country today. Rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and billionaires are able to manipulate the texas system so they avoid paying federal income in addition to that, you have massive tax avoidance by corporation, hundreds of millions of dollars. If mr. Giulianis that mr. Trump is smart and all the rest of us are dummies because we believe in america, we believe in our kids, we believe in national defense, they have a distorted view of the American People. You can see what mr. Trump did, according to the story s legal, correct . Right. Assuming that it is legal, what it tells you, you have a corrupt tax system which says to ordinary people, you have supposed to pay your taxes. But if youre a billionaire there are loopholes you can utilize that may enable you, if you are a billionaire, not pay your taxes. Warren buffett reminds us over and over again that his effective tax rate i his secretarys. That is absurd. And trump wants to make a bad situation worse by appealing the estate tax, appeals to the top 2 . And secretary clinton and i believe the wealthiest people in the country should pay their fair share. Hillary clinton made it a february. I want to play them and get your response. She is talking about your supporters. Their children of the great recession. They are living in their parents basement, if you feel you are consigned to being a barista or a job that doesnt pay much or have a ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe you can be a part of the Political Revolution is pretty here is what donald trump treat about that. Crooked h. Is nasty to sand erps supporters behind closed doors. Making a direct hit on your supporters. How did you take it . I took it exactly the opposite way. And what she said in the campaign, we do have our differences. Secretary clinton and i do completely correct. You have millions of young people, who took out homes to go to college and hoping to get decent jobs and they are unable to do that. And yes, they want a Political Revolution, they want to transform society and make sure when they get out of school, they can get a job that pays them wages and salaries with the education they have. I think that is a very important point and that is an issue as a nation we have got to address. How do we create goodpaying jobs for people who have a decent education . Clinton is talking about is rebuilding our infrastructure. And raise the minimal raise to a living wage so question can have decent jobs for all the people. A lot at supporters are Still Holding back from Hillary Clinton. What do you say to them . This is what i say, george. Look, we live in a tough world. Crises as we. And i would like people simply im noft going to tell people how to vote. Take a look at issue by issue. For example, Climate Change. A lot of young people are appropriately very concerned about Climate Change and what happens to her planet if we do not transform our energy system. Compare what donald trump says to what Hillary Clinton says. Donald trump is ignoring science. Is a hoax. Clinton has a serious plan to transform the system. Raising the minimum wage. Most americans know that a 7. 25 wage is not a living wage. In the first 100 days of her administration, if shes elected, she intends to lay out the Citizens UnitedSupreme Court decision that allows billionaires to buy elections. And i think if you look at clinton versus trump issue of sure. A lot of your supporters are not looking at clinton versus trump, they are looking at clinton versus gary johnson, and do you agree with president obama and the said a vote for anyone else is a vote for donald trump . Well this is what i think. I think its that the evidence is overwhelming. That is the next president of the United States is going to be Hillary Clinton or donald trump. And if youre voting for somebody else and not supporting Hillary Clinton because she does not live up to all of your specifications or all of your ideas, i think it is a vote for johnsons record on the economy. It is a very conservative approach. Something my supporters do not support. Senator sanders, thanks for joining us this morning. Thank you, jorng. The power house round table is standing by and we will take a deep dive to what vladimir puttin is up to. We have an expert panel with gary pass v dissident. Before it became a medicine, it was an idea. An inspiration. A wild whatif. So scientists went to work. They examined 87 different protein structures. Had 12 years of setbacks and breakthroughs, at first they were told no, well. Maybe, and finally yes. Then it was 36 clinical trials, 8,500 patient volunteers, and the hope of millions. And so after it became a medicine, someone who couldnt be cured, could be. Me. . Theres nothing more important than your health. Or the freedom to choose what doctor you want to see. So if youre on medicare, consider an aarp Medicare Supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. Like any standardized Medicare Supplement plan, youll be able to stay with the doctor or specialist you trust. Or look for someone new as long as they accept medicare patients. 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They all have insurance crafted personally for them. Not just coverage, craftsmanship. Not just insured. Chubb insured. Ahh. Still sick, huh . Ill take it from here. Im good. I just took new mucinex clear and cool. Ah whats this sudden enthol burst. You can feel it right away. Wow, that sort of blindsided me. And it clears my terrible cold symptoms. Ahh this is awkward. New Mucinex Fastmax clear cool. Feel the menthol burst. And clear your worst cold symptoms. Start the relief. Ditch the misery. Lets end this. Many people clean their dentures with toothpaste or plain water. And even though their dentures look clean, in reality theyre not. If a denture were to be put under a microscope, that still exists on the denture, and that bacteria multiplies very rapidly. Thats why dentists recommend cleaning with polident everyday. Polidents unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99. 99 of odor causing bacteria. For a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day. R for our best plan yet 7 gigs of data per line for only 49. To share more photos at your cabin or video chat at your secret fishing spot. All for just 49. The best part . We put towers in places the other guys dont. Because u. S. Cellular thinks you deserve a signal that works wherever you are. Switch to u. S. Cellular and get a whopping 7 gigs of data per line for only 49. I mean, this man is clearly unfit to be commander in chief. Wrong. He is a bully. Shut up. He started the birther movement. You did. He says Climate Change is a hoax invented by china. He hasnt released his tax returns which mines he is not that rich. Wrong. Not that charitable. Wrong. Or has never paid taxes in his life. Wronger. Saturday night live. We are joined by the round table, jon karl and coky roberts, heilemann from bloomberg politics, Roland Martin from n how damaging is this story . I think its very damaging. The clinton team will go at this relentlessly. They will go at the inherent unfair nls of something that welt know not paying tax bus they will go at him to go as a business failure. 900 million loss. They will try to bait him and a point as well. Were already hering anecdotal evidence and focus groups and rallies that people are unset that me might not have paid taxes. And most of us, it goes out of the paycheck every week so we are used to everybody paying taxes. The idea he didnt is upsetting to people. And you see Rudy Giuliani and Good Business person. Could it work . The answer is donald trump has paid millions of dollars in taxes. And the easy answer is to put of the tax returns. I i think voters are sophisticated to know that he is a businessman and Business People use the tax code to their advantage. The biggest problem is what jon said. Really hurt people, and particularly in new jersey. That is a challenge for the campaign. Christy and giuliani are out of their minds. This was not play well are regular voters to say that yeah, he lost nearly a billion dollars. There were investors in the busy. Were they Pension Funds . Teachers, firefighters, police officers, did they lose money investing in donald trump . They are great. No, its a problem and to say genius, its not smart. From the Trump Campaign, they didnt say that he paid federal income taxes. And the only thing we have on record are 1978 and 79. Didnt pay in 1994 and probably didnt in 991 and 39. And ruegy giuliani has been audited every year. He is under audi right now. This is is a time management thing. We are going to see now between today and the next president ial debate on sunday seven news cycles that are going to be consumed by trump on defense on the question and offense on the question. And that is a terrible problem if youre behind in the election, and donald trump is. And the polls, shows that donald trump lost the debate this Alicia Machado story, every single day and then friday. And they are taken with the tweets with Alicia Machado. And they are saying this Hillary Clinton knows how to crack the code, how to bait him, and needle him. None of them think this is a good idea. How bad the debate performance was. And none of them think its a good idea for him to go after his marriage either. The other thing that is going to come up in the news cycles, jon. Because that is where he is doubling down. For him to say shes not loyal, this is a man who has been married three times, was in a huge scandal when he left his first wife, or hadnt quite left her. So it is a crazy thing to do. Can anyone athi is now in his third regime of campaign manager, can anyone control donald trump . I think kelly Anne Connolly has done a great job managing in the short time she had been there. And donald trump was the cloesest he had ever been to getting to victory. I dont think he was ahead. But he was starting to inch up. He had huge momentum and this last week has been problematic to him. This is a guy that was completely unhinged. And in the debate monday, he questioned his temperament. He has proven in the last five days that he doesnt and you cannot put this kind of unstable individuals in the oval office makes decisions for the voter. He hoos proven them right every tweet. We have seen people going on and his prep, he didnt execute his plan. He quote unquote lost his nerve. Yeah, one things we know about campaigns in crisis is that they leak. And when the leaking starts, its a sign of chaos and that is what the situation is in trump tower at this point. No one is really in control. Its not that they cant control him. He cant control himself. He has had bad weeks and almost times he has decided to go after a public citizen. And now to go after this woman, a latina woman in a time i agree with sara. The day before the debate was he was closest to winning the election. But with the voters he needs to move, to win on the narrow path, he did incalculable damage in the week because of the level of intensity of interest in this week, the focus on him, the size of made it worst for himself, every day after the debate. We are still talking about it today. No one is going to remember Alicia Machado by the end of this week where. Does it go next . Clearly someone has an interest in putting his his tax returns. These things dont happen by accident. We are likely to see more of the release all of his taxes. If he didnt pay income taxes, you calculate all the other taxes you have paid, real estate, state taxes and property taxes. And he is a very big tax bill. There is an answer to this for him. That is the only solution. It certainly appears he made the calculation a long, long time ago, if he went back and looked at his tax returns in the last 18 or 20 years, you w see very little shown in income. Who knows about income or charitable donations mmpb. He cant. And this is the guy who is saying im appealing to you, White Working Class voter in ohio, pennsylvania and wisconsin. He is going to be proven, he has been a fraud, he has been lying and he is will say, wait a minute. You are a rich guy like the rest of us. White working class voters who have been stiffed by him. And thats the other thing that can really hurt him. He seems intent on talking about bill clintons intent. What happen he does need to win the election . A lot of white suburban, College Educated women. He did no good last week with the machado situation. And in isn Clinton Campaign is begging him to raise. There is no pool to whom that is going to seem appealing. Does it seem in the second debate it does bring up all of his stuffer. Remember, hes even said when he was leaving ivana people sided with her. And he was unable to do things because america sided with him. Work for Hillary Clinton she cannot do for her sfrl. She has had real enthusiasm problem with College Educated women. And you look at the last week. Yeah, and the challenge for Hillary Clinton is putting forward a positive vision that will resonate. She has had the debate. She is able to debate him. I think she will continue to bait him on the issue of not just paying taxes but the fact he lost so much fun. What does it mean . Put something out that is going to resonate and she hasnt done that yet. And the polls cant major intensity. 76 of republicans say they will likely vote. 47 18 to 34. She has to deal with the gap. She is going to charlotte, meeting with young black men today. There was a ninepoint gap between black men and black women. The millennial issue. And she better get real about the intensity gap. And rolands right. Intensity has been on donald trump most of the election. You look pat the republican turn out, which does mean something there is intensity, at least there was on his side. I want to look ahead to the next debate, john its difficult to pull it off when you get the questions from real voters. You have real voters asking questions, the freedom to move away outside the podium and there is more debate prep that goes around the town hall debate and the podium debate and the town hall did no prep for the first debate. Other president ial candidate can do. And the thinks he won the first debate. What happens if a size 12 or 14 woman seriously, what a size 12 or 14 woman stands up and says, i have two daughters. Look at me, do you think im beautiful, do you think im fat . Donald trump is going to stand there with a deer in headlights look. What are you in this format, you have to answer that question. Thats going to be a problem for him. You cant dis the questioners on this one. Thank you very much. And how and why russia is meddling in the elections and what can be done about it. 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Bp drilling teams train in Virtual Reality simulators in here, because safety is never being satisfied. And always working to be better. Obviously, interference in the u. S. Election process is a very, very serious matter. We are doing an awful lot work with counterintelligence investigators to know what mischief russia is up to. Could they be hacking the system . We begin with chief justice correspondent pierre thomas. What do we know . Reporter what my souses are election cycle. They confirm that hackers have been scanning a large number of u systems and in state voting systems. We first reported that Voter Registration data bases have been target the. And they likely copied nifk but they were not able to manipulate or change voter roles. But the primary suspects, ck levels of russian government. Why would the russian government be doing it . One is just an idea of identity threat. But the deeper concern is that the russians want the americans to feel uneasy about the outcome of the election. And while they fear that individual Voting Machines can be hacked because they are not fear that its deeply concerning. Imagine if in in the battleground state, there is a question about thousands of citizens. And they are pretty sure that russia is behind it but they feel it informally. And its seen as helping the hillary campaign. But also there is concern, what is your next move . How far do you escalate . Expert richard clarke, adam schiff, julia ioffe and Gary Kasparov. Let me begin with you and pick up with pierre left off. Because they are hay frad . They are afraid to kick off a cyber war where the u. S. Is afraid to retaliate. If we retaliate against russia, we could get into a spiral that would be a cyber war. And the United States is so vulnerable to cyber attack, the white house doesnt want to start that. You and your colleagues have gotten briefings on the aggression ac . To establish a deterrent. We have seen the tacking of the Voter Registration data bases and they have no foreign intelligence value. They are valuable if you are prepared to the cyber battlefield to make mischief in the elections. And i think the russians respect one thing. That is strength. If they see an open door that is an invitation to do more. And we should work with alleys around the world who have been saying that Vladimir Putin is waging a shadow year . Absolutely. And working for trump, i can tell you from my russian and english books and twitter, there are real hackers and there are so many soft targets. And in the report, you dont have to attack on the state level. You just go to the battleground states and municipalities. And all putin has to do is create doubts about the validity of the action and give trump a chance. You say trying to help trump. Is it helping trump or hurting hillary . I have heard it both ways . I think its both and its under mining faith in the western institutions and the stability of western democracy at large. What we saw in 2014 when we saw trickal war fair. You dont have to do that much in to project a lot of power for americans to start thinking, he has the power to swing whole elections, he is a powerful man. That gets to an important point. The actual individual voting systemar change the outcome of an election but all you have do is create doubts about the legitimacy of the outcome. The voting itself with phony emails. They have already hacked and dumped real emails, and established they have real emails. The second dump, i expect in the next couple weeks, may have salted into thousands of real emails, forged or altered emails. How can you then prove they are someone wipes out 100,000 voters in ohio or florida, and that is enough just to create chaos across the country. Or people to say we saw what happened in florida or arizona, what else do we not know about . Have we not done the other med meddling . And you saw Vladimir Putin say that all the rumors were circulating about theis hope this is a reflection of russias power on the world stage. Naming and shaming is one option. Ma more can be done to protect the systems in the days and the weeks . I say that second johnson to find out what are the best methods of protecting themselves. But just to under score what dick said, they will not be able to change the outcome. What worries me and keeps me up at night is what they is done in europe, the manipulation of data. If they have doctored thing, it would be hard to disprove the content of the fake emails. They have used that approach before and they can be electi electionaltering. Why would Vladimir Putin want trump to be in the oval office . A special rereport of the boeing shot bli russian missile. Putin needs not a friend but someone who acts as an agent of chaos and trump has said its ideal for putin to go after nato, you, to destroy institutions that are these are the methods we have seen putin use for over a decade inside russia. Sowing doubt. Creating conspiracy theories. By the way, russian television, kremlin owned, has been very clear from early in the primaries who they want to win. They have been very sympathetic to trump. And trump coming out in the debates saying could be russia, could be china. Could be a 400 pound man. You have no doubt this is russia. I have no doubt. Its not a question of evidence. Its a question of the administration, do they do more than name and shame . What are they playing into the russian hands sowing doubt . But the fact is the americans already see the meddling and it would be far worse if there is a American People question, they are doing it and we knew it all along. What would you be recommending . I recommend that we try to work with the the states. There are a couple states that dont have paper ballots. They have machines where you push a button and thats it. There is no paper record. We need something with a backup. So afterwards, we can count paper votes. Okay, thank you. And now, we honor our fellow americans who serve and sacrifice. In the month of september two Service Members died supporting the missions in iraq and syria. . And we will be here for all the action tuesday night. Im going to anchor the live coverage of the Vice President nt debate with the the political team. That starts at 9 00 eastern. And next sunday, sunday night, the next trump clinton debate comoderated by martha raddatz. That is all for us right today on matter of fact, a nation built on dissent. Struggles with this silent act. We cant expect our athletes to just shut up and play. What does this protest mean to you . And it is kaine versus pence. Vice president ial debate. Plus, selfie nation could this trend change at the way you see politics . But first is taking a stand for racial equality unpatriotic or an act of patriotism . Im soledad obrien. Welcome to matter of fact. . Soledad social and political